My boradband line was activated on 12 Jan 2007. I am on broadband unlimited and i just called Orange customer service to cancel my contract and they said that you have to pay £209 to cancel the contract and that you do not have any rights to cancel the contract with broadband unlimited. is that right? is that legal? That we do not have even a single day to think about canceling a service which simply sux. the broadband unlimited has FUP. the VOIOP telephone voice is crap and i have abandoned it. Instead of saving telephone bills i am now paying ££ waiting, listening 'Future is bright' music and try to justify that i have the legal reasons to cancel the contract. can someone please help me. i think tommorow it will be day 14 so i have to do something quickly whatever i can in order to get rid of Orange. the future is dark with the Orange and may God stay us faaaaaaaaaaar away from fu**ing Orange.
Unfortunately, and I may be wrong, but you can only cancel in first 30days if you take the Starter package. I can see nothing to this effect in the Unlimited T & C's so it looks like you can not cancel without penalty (in your case £209). You may have a right if you can show breach of contract. Just cancelling because you may believe Orange is in breach of contract will not be enough and in doing this you yourself will be in breach of contract. The only way I can see out of this situation is if (1) you prove breach of contract or (2) you pay the £209 to terminate. Proving breach of contract maybe a costly affair.
Unfortunately, and I may be wrong, but you can only cancel in first 30days if you take the Starter package. I can see nothing to this effect in the Unlimited T & C's so it looks like you can not cancel without penalty (in your case £209). You may have a right if you can show breach of contract. Just cancelling because you may believe Orange is in breach of contract will not be enough and in doing this you yourself will be in breach of contract. The only way I can see out of this situation is if (1) you prove breach of contract or (2) you pay the £209 to terminate. Proving breach of contract maybe a costly affair.
Huge companies have the best legal representation that other people's money can buy; (your money)
You the customer can't really afford to take on these big fat cats.
There is strength in numbers! Don't waste your time trying to deal with a huge faceless, uncaring, cold hearted, company! Just simply Kick em into touch!
After the Start Date you will not be able to end these Agreements except as set out in this paragraph 17. This does not affect any statutory rights that you have as a consumer, if those rights cannot be excluded or limited. Please contact your local authority Trading Standards Department or the Citizens Advice Bureau for information on your statutory rights.
You could take it's advice and check on your rights, although it's likely as TVMan said that you'll probably find it hard to get out without paying the fee.
Ironically, they sent me an email in the begining saying that you have 30 days piece of mind money back guarentee. but when i spoke to a customer care lady today, she said that the email was sent in error and that the 30 days guarentee is for starter's package only. honestly, i could not beleive that someone like Orange can not let you cancel your contract with in first two weeks. therefore, i asked the customer care lady that i want to record your voice can you please say your name and confirm that i cannot cancel my contract with in forst 14 days. she spoke to someone and then said that by law you cannot record my voice and then she started reciting the contract details... wtf... once again waist of time and money.
so what the law says? i did hear someone was saying on this website that by law, people can cancel and get out of the contract within first 14 days.
On the other notes, this was the bloodiest ever mistake i have done in my life. speaking to Orange CS is hell and they are absolutely non-friendly.
i was with AOL before and the greed to get unlimited talk package has really gave me a lot of pain. Now i realise how brilliant AOL was. unlimited downloads no letter regarding FUP and never ever i paid for customer support (always used web support). I actually still want to go back to AOL. They were too good for me....
I have now stopped calling Orange's customer support at all. they are the worst. Just wondering how one big name can be so bad.
I am not lying and i am not exaggrating but since when i am switched to Orange, i am paying more bills (every time i need to use talk service i have to make an immediate complain regarding the voice because the voice is breaking all the times.)
Anyhow, I would like to raise my voice here by saying that
Please please do not go for Orange. They Sucks and so does their service. Just do not make your future dark with Orange
This is what i feel for Orange. If you have not chosen Orange then my sincere advise to you is that just stay away from Orange. i wish i could find this website before joining oange.
Also can someone please guide me how to complain to ofcom authority and whether it is worth registering a complain or not.
Huge companies have the best legal representation that other people's money can buy; (your money)
You the customer can't really afford to take on these big fat cats.
Hmm....
It is this attitude that allows Orange to get away with their shocking service.
In reality nothing could be further from the truth, I haven't had a proper read of the full T&C's yet, but eventually i'll get round to it and pick apart their contract on here.
However, for starters there are several paragraphs contained within the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 which will serve you well when trying to get out of the contract. Bear in mind, I haven't yet done this successfully with Orange but the principle is sound.
Basically a term can be considered unfair for a number of reasons but I reckon the paragraphs below are the most relevant.
The following statute laws are all in Schedule 2, Section 1 of the UTCCR, (which for reference is Statutory Instrument 1999/2083):-
(h) automatically extending a contract of fixed duration where the consumer does not indicate otherwise, when the deadline fixed for the consumer to express his desire not to extend the contract is unreasonably early;
(k) enabling the seller or supplier to alter unilaterally without a valid reason any characteristics of the product or service to be provided;
(o) obliging the consumer to fulfil all his obligations where the seller or supplier does not perform his;
(p) giving the seller or supplier the possibility of transferring his rights and obligations under the contract, where this may serve to reduce the guarantees for the consumer, without the latter's agreement;
There are other statutory laws which will probably apply, primarily, The Distance Selling Regulations 2000 and The Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 and I will apply these in due course in the form of a letter which people can adjust to suit their needs.
However, if you are reasonably verbose and you can prove you have given Orange ample opportunity to correct their errors, (if you can't I can help you there too), then it can easily be proved that Paragraph 17 of their T&C's is in direct contravention of paragraph (o) of the UTCCR and this should be enough to declare the minimum contract period null and void.
As far as costs go, issuing a claim on the small claims track at your county court will cost you £150 as there is no monetary claim involved, (you can claim this back if/when you win). All small claims are protected from costs and therefore even if you lose, you will have 'only' lost £150, Orange cannot claim their legal fees from you. This also presents another advantage, as the liklihood is they would have to plough money into defending your claim, (their solicitors likely charge more an hour than your annual contract is worth to them), they will likely settle as soon as you issue the papers and they realise you are serious.
Although I haven't taken Orange to task, I have taken two LARGE financial institutions down this route, between them they settled for around £5000 before it got anywhere near a courtroom.
Although I tend to get baffled my the tech speak in here, I am reasonably well read in contract law and will do all I can to help.
You can try trading standards they may or may not be interested and you will have to provide some sort of proof emails letters etc. If enough bring it so their attention the bad image that could result could bring about a change. That is of course assuming that they really care.
(h) automatically extending a contract of fixed duration where the consumer does not indicate otherwise, when the deadline fixed for the consumer to express his desire not to extend the contract is unreasonably early;
Can't see this being applicable. when you sign for ADSLMax you agree to extend the conract for further 12 months. I think Orange have this well and truely wrappped up 'if you wan't 8meg then sign for a 12 month contract, if you don't then stay where you are. In other words the choice is with the customer.
Quote:
(k) enabling the seller or supplier to alter unilaterally without a valid reason any characteristics of the product or service to be provided;
I think the valid reason will be if the customer agrees to the new 12 month contract as indicated above
Quote:
(o) obliging the consumer to fulfil all his obligations where the seller or supplier does not perform his;
Ah, now heres a valid point that could be a way out. Proving failure to provide service with due care could be cause for breach of contract.
Quote:
(p) giving the seller or supplier the possibility of transferring his rights and obligations under the contract, where this may serve to reduce the guarantees for the consumer, without the latter's agreement;
Again, I think the agreement form the customer will be the acceptance to take a further 12 month contract
The important word in all of the above is 'signed'.
Has anyone signed anything in regards to ADSL Max? Electronically signing is validated by a different statute,(The Electronic Signatures Regulations 2002. SI 2002/318) and now carries [almost] the same weight as a written signature. The ONLY other way you can deem to have accepted new terms is by using the service for a period of time. By definition, if you want exit the contract the liklihood is that you will not have actually recieved the service to use for any period of time so this is unlikely to be an issue.
I was 'upgraded' automatically so the 12 month restart doesn't actually apply and the paragraphs i've outlined are relevant to all those in the same situation.
To sum up. If you have recieved an automatic 'upgrade' and have since recieved diminished or no service, all of the above paragraphs are still relevant. If you agreed to a further 12 month contract, then tvman is correct and only paragraph (o) is likely to be of use in this situation.
Quote:
(p) giving the seller or supplier the possibility of transferring his rights and obligations under the contract, where this may serve to reduce the guarantees for the consumer, without the latter's agreement;
This for use when Orange say it's all BT's fault and they can't do anything about it. This is applicable whether you aigned a new agreement or not.
I am taking a slightly different route. I plan to pay the contract off, (i'm aware this isn't an option for everyone), and then pursue them through the courts for the money back. The main benefits of doing it this way are:
1/ Court costs are lower when there is a sum of money involved, in most cases this will be £30 assuming the amount you are claiming back is less than £300.
2/I can move to an proper service provider while the claim is progressing.
3/Even if I lose I will have only lost the amount I paid to be released from the contract plus the court fees, (in my case about £100), rather than the £150 if I lost using the dispute resolution method described above.
If you need copies of your call log from them and perhaps, more importantly a copy of your (signed?) contract you can make what's called a Subject Access Request. This is a provision under The Data Protection Act 1998, (Paragraph 7) which allows you access to any information a company holds on, or relating to, you. They are allowed to charge a maximum of £10 for this information and they must supply it within 40 calendar days of you requesting it. My advice is to write your request and send it recorded delivery with a Postal Order as these can be easily tracked.
I think Orange are going to be EXTREMELY busy with court cases. Their "BIG BROTHER" attitude leaves a LOT to be desired, how anyone can expect to charge and/or be paid for something they cannot provide is beyond me. Im fairly sure the British Legal system will sort out this point.
NO FIX NO FEE Orange. It was apparent in my case that they were merely scratching their heads and did not have a clue how to fix the problems, promising things then not acting on them.The reason ive had to cancel is because they wouldnt close my account without me paying even though i was told a week earlier if they could not fix the problem then a supervisor in the "Customer Care" section could override this and do it FOC !! ... so much for their "Customer Care" !!
So i suggest to EVERYONE who has been charged to go through the County Court (small claims court) to recover the money Orange have taken from their accounts without permission, it really is not on and im sure Orange know this......after all they probably think most people wont pursue them to recover their money. LETS SEE EH !!!
Ironically, they sent me an email in the begining saying that you have 30 days piece of mind money back guarentee. but when i spoke to a customer care lady today, she said that the email was sent in error and that the 30 days guarentee is for starter's package only. honestly, i could not beleive that someone like Orange can not let you cancel your contract with in first two weeks. therefore, i asked the customer care lady that i want to record your voice can you please say your name and confirm that i cannot cancel my contract with in forst 14 days. she spoke to someone and then said that by law you cannot record my voice and then she started reciting the contract details... wtf... once again waist of time and money.
Ha! The exact same thing happened to me! So I thought, great, I'll wait a while and see if the speed issues will resolve... Is this an Orange-strategy?
Basically Helena they have not got a clue how to fix any of these problems, they make false promises, offer a line test ( with me almost on a DAILY basis) how many effing line tests do they need to do before they can see a problem?
They just keep people waiting day after day, week after week, with NO advance in solving the problems, and why you may ask?
because they do NOT know how to solve ANY of these problems....basically they do not have a clue !
Isnt it about time they stopped offering broadband until they can actually provide it and stick to mobile phones instead? having said, that how many people are also having problems with Orange mobile service?
Also look at this section. I've given ISPA 7 days to resolve. They have been no use so far. I'm then going to Citizens advice:
Quote:
Please note that, as a result of those technical limitations, the
contracts between you and us will not be complete, and neither you nor
our
group companies concerned will be legally committed to take or provide
any
of the services until either we have confirmed to you by email to your
Orange email address or such other email address you have notified to us
that we have activated the services or, if for some reason you do not
receive that email, when you first start to use the broadband access
service, whichever of these happens first
Therefore in my case, they have NEVER supplied talk, therefore it seems my contract in not complete.
Gotcha.
They cant seem to provide ANY service Stu not just "Talk" their technical support people are c**p they have not got a clue, they read off scripts and just fob people off with the offer of Line tests, believe me there is, and was, nothing wrong with my line before they screwed up the exchange by installing their LLU equipment in place of the BT equipment, they KNOW this ... admitted it to me on a NUMBER of occasions and agreed it doesw NOT work yet STILL could not solve the problems.They will get an awful lot of publicity if they pursue me for money they expect me to pay for something that did not and DOES NOT work. I cannot believe they would expect payment from ANYONE when they cannot provide the service we are supposedly paying for!
Its about time we all got together on this and took them to task, surely they cannot expect to get away with this much longer.
IF ANYONE FROM ISPA READS THIS ISNT IT ABOUT TIME YOU DID SOMETHING POSITIVE ABOUT THIS SITUATION? YOU ARE VERY CONSPICUOUS BY YOUR ABSENSE AND YOUR LACK OF ACTION WITH THESE PROBLEMS IS VERY APPARENT.
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