Well, trying since October to migrate from Orange to IDNet, which finally completed on 11 December. End of problems. Not a chance.Orange have been pestering me since because they can't obtain my payment for this month (which since they do not provide my service, isn't due).
After no less than 6 calls to Orange CS, they finally agreed to close my account on 4 January. Unbeknownst to me, they also issued a cease order on my BB, WHICH HAS BEEN EFFECTED.
Apparently, either BT failed to send, or Orange failed to deal with the request to migrate, so BT jury rigged the system so that my new IPStream connection is made via Orange's servers. In other words - Orange were still in the loop.
The cease order has now stopped my connection dead (no connection to the server).
New ISP is trying to sort things out. As for me, I'm gonna be ringing Ofcom, and any newspaper who will talk to me.
Sat here now on a PAYG dial up connection - and not happy at all.
Technically Orange haven't done anything wrong. Migration codes once provided are dealt with by the new provider and then BT. Obviously BT messed something up and didn't correctly migrate the service or label it as the new providers. It's likely because of this the system didn't inform Orange the line had moved provders, technically because it was still listed as under their control thats why you were still billed.
An account ends when it is either closed or a migration confirmation comes back from BT. So once you got Orange to close the account, because it hadn't been migrated correctly a cease was automatically ordered for the line as it was still listed as Orange's. BT do not cease lines that don't list as belonging to the provider requesting it otherwise simple errors would cause chaos in the industry. Right now it's going to be a matter of waiting for the mess to be sorted out by BT / your new ISP, best to wait till all over before going after anybody with the full details.
Oh, I will be waiting. I've asked my new ISP to let me know when they have a definitive answer as to who's to blame.
Nevertheless, it appears that Orange failed to respond to BT at some necessary point in the migration, forcing the jury rigging of the system.
This being the case, the blame still lands firmly in Orange's lap.
Whether it's BT or Orange who's to blame, heads will roll. Of that you can be certain. I'm not the kind of person to let go when I have the bit between my teeth, and on this particular catalogue of errors, I am firmly chomping at the bit.
And before jumping in to defend Orange further, it may be worthwhile noting that this problem has been reported by a handful of other people, and the outgoing ISP is ALWAYS Orange. Notice the common denominator.
They AGREED to close your account - how the hell did you manage that!
They don't listen to a word I say. After no service since September, I phoned Customer Services in November & asked them to close my account from December 6th (2 weeks notice) as they had failed to provide an internet service for over 2 months.
Accounts phoned me to say that they could not take a payment out as I had closed the direct debit but said that my account was still open and the 1 year contract did not end till the 15 of December. They put me through to Services but the person there said he could not close my account but would e-mail the supervisor handling it and the supervisor would phone me! (this was the same supervisor that had promised to sort my problems out and phone me back - he never did and never has like all the other liars!).
Accounts sent me an e-mail about non-payment so I sent them back a full bullet pointed factual history of the problem including the fact that they said they would give me 2 FREE months and that I had asked Services to cancel the account and that I was now officially asking Accounts to cancel my account.
Accounts sent me an e-mail to say that I had to contact Services to cancel the account!
I asked them for an e-mail address to officially send a cancellation in black & white..... they said Services would not accept an e-mail and I had to phone them to cancel it!!!
I sent Accounts a return e-mail saying I would never-ever phone Orange again at my cost (7.5p per min!)
December 22nd Accounts sent me an e-mail saying that they have taken another £5 out of my account for late payment and have now suspended my service! (they sent an e-mail saying they had suspened my service?? I'm on NTL so thats the only reason why I now have a service to be able to read e-mails!!!)
They don't listen to a thing you say. I will never phone them again at my cost and I'm preparing the facts to write to Orange, ISPA etc.
I'm sure IDNet will sort it out. Their CS is a pleasure to deal with, unlike Orange. It's a shame it's 9-5 Mon - Fri - but when you get to speak to the same person on a freefone number, and they call you (as in - not just call back - but simply call to advise progress) IDNet are really starting to prove their worth to me.
To Been Tangoed
I've been out of the 12 month contract period for about 15 (maybe more) years. I know what you mean about Orange failing to listen. I have phoned them several times since migration, and so there is no way they can plead ignorance, regardless of the facts. I have also learned that when they record the details of the call, their record is selective. The last two calls I have dictated to them what to include.
I did phone them last night and again this morning. On neither occasion did I expect them to do anything, but I felt they needed shouting at (and shout at them I did).
As soon as I get a definitive blame, trust me, heads will roll long and hard. Ofcom, ISPA, tabloids, trading standards and anyone else who will listen.
And I expect to be fully compensated for my time, inconvenience, cost etc. I have already advised Orange that MY time is chargeable at £50 per hour (Until last night - I've put the price up to £75 per hour - they have been informed of this, too).
They had the option to terminate the call if they did not agree - and they continued the call, which I take as acceptance.
By my calculations, Orange are going to have to pay me upwards of £500 to date.
As soon as I get a definitive blame, trust me, heads will roll long and hard. Ofcom, ISPA, tabloids, trading standards and anyone else who will listen.
And I expect to be fully compensated for my time, inconvenience, cost etc. I have already advised Orange that MY time is chargeable at £50 per hour (Until last night - I've put the price up to £75 per hour - they have been informed of this, too).
They had the option to terminate the call if they did not agree - and they continued the call, which I take as acceptance.
By my calculations, Orange are going to have to pay me upwards of £500 to date.
Wish me luck.
No chance. Leaving aside the fact that this doesn't appear to be Orange's fault, why would they give all that money to an ex-customer?
Why do you think they would agree to such a ridiculously large amount? Because you think you're owed it?
And how many times do you think call centre staff are "threatened" with trading standards, local press, Watchdog etc etc etc?
As soon as I get a definitive blame, trust me, heads will roll long and hard. Ofcom, ISPA, tabloids, trading standards and anyone else who will listen.
And I expect to be fully compensated for my time, inconvenience, cost etc. I have already advised Orange that MY time is chargeable at £50 per hour (Until last night - I've put the price up to £75 per hour - they have been informed of this, too).
They had the option to terminate the call if they did not agree - and they continued the call, which I take as acceptance.
By my calculations, Orange are going to have to pay me upwards of £500 to date.
Wish me luck.
No chance. Leaving aside the fact that this doesn't appear to be Orange's fault, why would they give all that money to an ex-customer?
Why do you think they would agree to such a ridiculously large amount? Because you think you're owed it?
And how many times do you think call centre staff are "threatened" with trading standards, local press, Watchdog etc etc etc?
To date (and still with no BB) the jury is till out on who's to blame. Whether it's Orange or BT - things have now gone beyond a joke, and I'll be taking one or the other to the small claims court if I don't get compensated (and yes - I can be realistic about what compensation is reasonable).
Nevertheless, regarding my outrageous demands - if Orange can imply (legally) that continuation of the call is tacit acceptane of their terms and conditions - then I have as much right to make the same assumption of them. A contract is binding, if accepted, in the UK, whether it be written, oral, or implied.
Nevertheless, regarding my outrageous demands - if Orange can imply (legally) that continuation of the call is tacit acceptane of their terms and conditions - then I have as much right to make the same assumption of them. A contract is binding, if accepted, in the UK, whether it be written, oral, or implied.
They would probably argue that the agents you spoke to have no authority to accept those terms on their behalf. Also although a court may decide otherwise the terms and conditions do state that they'll only pay compensation for broadband, not for loss of profit, time, etc.
Nevertheless, regarding my outrageous demands - if Orange can imply (legally) that continuation of the call is tacit acceptane of their terms and conditions - then I have as much right to make the same assumption of them. A contract is binding, if accepted, in the UK, whether it be written, oral, or implied.
I agree with the other poster. Your contract does not offer a lot of comfort re compensation. They've even written a tort clause in effectively covering their backs for negligence. So at this point they appear not to be in breach of contract even though you may believe they have not taken a duty of care. In taking it to small claims court, your acceptance to these T & C's maybe a stumbling block in winning any compensation.
If your main aim is to aportion blame and get compensation then trading standards, ofcom, ISPA are not going to be the way forward. They may well investigate a complaint but may not want to get involved in any compensation element of that complaint.
Your best bet in this case is to use the CISAS, an independent adjudication service that Orange have registered with under regulation requirements. They will fully investigate based on the facts and evidence provided. They are not bound in law to accept the T & C's as definitive evidence as a small claims court would have to. If they find that Orange were negilgent they can award compensation based on all losses incurred, whether monetory or not. However, I do not think you will be doing yourself or your case, no matter where you intend taking it, any favours by making known that things such as hourly rates have been increased from what appears to be based upon emotiove actions.
If you require further information on CISAS thier website address is www.arbitrators.org/cisas/index.asp where you will also find a number of actual case adjudications and the compensations awarded for cases similiar to yours.
With regard to Orange's T & Cs, go back to my post. You'll find I was no longer an Orange customer. As such, I had left their T&Cs behind and cannot be held accountable to them.
Orange have inconvenienced a former customer. I migrated because I did not accept their T&Cs (or poor service etc.). This being the case, Orange CANNOT pull the "it's in the contract" card. I was not bound to their contract, I was not a customer. They have been able to terminate my BB connection with a 3rd party, unconnected ISP. They have acted illegally. I'm sure the monopolies commission would see it that way, too.
Imagine if "betterfones4U UK" just had to say the word and your BT line was cut. Would you be quite so supportive then?
They have acted illegally. I'm sure the monopolies commission would see it that way, too.
Orange are not in a monopoly situation . I can not see the Monopolies Commission being in the slight bit interested, The way Orange are going (poor service, unhappy customers, bad press) there is no way they are ever likely to be in that position anyway.
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