Can someone advise if the speed I'm getting is reasonable or not based on the above.
If you read through some of the posts in this thread, it will become clear that Orange are having serious problems with their new ADSL2+ DLM.
They use a 10dB default Target SNR rather than the 6dB that all other ISPs use, BE for example. N.B. your downstream SNRM = 10dB that is one reason why your router isn't syncing at 12 or 13meg.
They run the DLM 24/7 which I think only BT and Sky do, BE run theirs for just a few days on initial connection as do most other LLU ISPs. This is another reason why your router isn't syncing higher.
The DLM software is, in addition, flawed which Orange are saying is being corrected. This is another reason why your router isn't syncing higher.
Personally, if I had been in your position, I would have moved to o2 (now Sky) and got their mobile+home phone+broadband package.
I believe sooner or later ASA will receive a complaint regarding Orange's description "up to 20meg" because somebody will challenge them to prove that anyone is actually capable of achieving anywhere near the maximum 20meg, given the connection parameters that they are using even if the user was located next door to the local exchange.
I have an email from Orange describing how their DLM works. But I have been told that it was just for me to read. However I do think it would make interesting reading especially to you and others.
I have been told that Orange are happy with the DLM and how it works now. So if my speed goes down to 9 meg, that is because the DLM thinks there is noise on my line. And if I reboot and go back to 12.5 meg, then that according to Orange is acceptable and all part of how the DLM works.
I am sure that you would all like to read how the DLM works.... so bear with me for a while......
I do not doubt that Orange believe everything they put out to the media and to the users but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's true.
What they can't do is to advertise a product that, because of operational strategy, they have no intention of delivering.
If Orange can give just one example of a user whose router is syncing at, near or in excess of 20,000kbps then the Advertising Standards Authority would be happy.
There are users of BE and o2 (now Sky) whose routers sync at the advertised speed.....there are some, not many, that sync in excess of the advertised speed.
Quote:
The 20Mbps o2 (now Sky) maximum is just conservative marketing to minimise complaints from non-geeks. There are several people on o2 (now Sky) getting over 20Mbps.
I have been allowed to post what was emailed to me, but as best as I could in my own words from the email, rather than a direct cut and paste. Although that is quite difficult with regard the technical terms used, so here goes:
The Dynamic Line Management [DLM] is a software module on the network element manager for the DSLAMs.
The element manager creates a service template which is more or less a 3 dimensional table, or grid, of profiles for the SFBB service.
- On the z axis of the grid is Up/downstream speed and noise margin
- On the y axis is error protection [impulse noise protection and interleaving delay]
- On the x axis transmit power [used to try to repair the service in terms of MTBR and MTBE, or line sync health].
Orange have a number of service profiles in the service template that will facilitate a service from 24Mb to 288Kb [z axis]
And with varying tolerances of noise protection and interleaving [y axis].
Each service profile has has an upper and lower value for rate.
For example the 24Mb service profile will support a line with a max attainable bit rate [MABR] of 24567Kb down to 20480Kb.
If the customers MABR falls below 20480Kb then DLM will change the profile to the next lowest one, a 20Mb profile.
Similarly if the line exhibits fewer, or more, noise issues or coding violations then DLM will make a sideways switch to profile which will better support the customers service stability.
Where DLM determines that a line requires a service quality repair/upgrade, or a line sync health repair then one change in one dimension is recommended and then implemented by DLM.
Tolerances [such as noise margin] of each service profile are hardcoded to that profile, but because there are a number of service profiles in each service template if more of less 'protection' is required, or more or less rate is possible then DLM will move the customers line to suitable profile.
Following BBK's posts it seems to me just too much of a coincidence that we all have so much noise on our lines that DLM has to reduce all our line speeds. It would appear that the parameters built into their model are very restrictive in order to satisfy their policy of providing speeds much less than 20Mb. If BBK has had a rock solid connection at 12Mb then its obvious the noise wasn't affecting his connection so why should DLM reduce the speed unless its done artifically.
On a related issue - if I reboot my wireless router should the initial download rate be at my specified profile speed and should I see this before DLM kicks in to reduce it?
It seems to work in a similar way to the BT system. It's just saying that it moves profiles based on your line conditions and reported attainable bitrate between you and the DSLAM overtime.
BBK, when you are synced at 12Meg what does your router read as your attainable rate?
It must be resyncing you because your noise margin (9db) is falling below the tollerated level for that profile?
Strange though how you can resync back at 12Meg after being resynced at 9Meg if indeed the DLM has reprofiled you??? As we've already discussed, 9Meg is outside the range of a profile required for 12Meg...
The issue, that I do not fully understand with the Orange DLM; is it wasn't like this when I was on the upto 8Mbps account.
I could switch routers and modems over for testing and would reysnc and connect at same speed. I could turn router off at night and next morning, when turned on, would resync at same speed.
To add to the issues on my connection........ BT wholesale, having been digging at cabinet sites where I live..... I do hope it is to upgrade cabinets to fibre lines? Would be nice, to be test area for new FTTC service, before they roll out rest of town.......
My speedtouch 585v6 router reports a max attainable speed of 14.5 meg.
Orange in my change package screen shows only 11 meg as my max speed.
Current stats from my netgear router (which at the moment does not show a max attainable speed) are;
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 12658 kbps 1157 kbps
Line Attenuation 31.9 db 7.6 db
Noise Margin 9.4 db 7.6 db
This morning my speed was at a lousy 8 meg, despite being 12 meg at midnight, rebooted at around 8am this morning to get the above figures!
Personally I don't think there is enough noise on my line to justify the DLM regrading me every day without fail. I went for 2 weeks on 12.5 meg when that was a manual profile without any problems. Since the new DLM came back, it has downgraded me without fail, the last 3 times in the early hours of the morning. I've had routerstats running all this time and my SNRM is constant between 9 and 10, usually around 9.5 rock solid, then without warning and for no reason, the DLM resyncs me!
I can run 12.5 meg all day especially in the busy and noiser evenings and my router does not budge from an average of 9.5 SNRM. Yet when everyone is asleep, the DLM has been up to no good.
Funny how a few days ago it was downgrading me down to 9meg at around 9:45am and then it did a few days around 1:15pm YET on the days where it has left me alone, I have sailed through the day without any problems on my line. Now it is in the early hours when the DLM knows I am sleeping, that is when it downgrades me now, knowing fine well it will keep me at 8 meg for a few hours until I awake. Then I get my own back and reboot it all the way back to 12.5 meg
Just logged into my account page at Orange website.
Found something by chance........
Change Your Home Package Page:-
Changing your package means you'll be starting a new minimum term contract from the date your package change has completed. We'll email you to confirm the change.
We've checked out your line and your estimated speed is 3.5 Meg.
Speed Information Page
speed information
The speed estimate at registration or the speed we have measured on your line is 7.5Mb.
change your home package
Interested in our other home packages?
Find out what's on offer.
How can their line test show 2 different figures?
Telnet Stats
DS
Noise Margin: 20.2 dB
Connection Rate: 2046 Kbps
Line Attenuation: 42.0 dB
Power: 19.0 dBm
Max Rate: 13070 Kbps
US
Noise Margin: 26.9 dB
Connection Rate: 604 Kbps
Line Attenuation: 24.2 dB
Power: 12.4 dBm
Max Rate: 1024 Kbps
This is starting to really baffle me.......... DLM can drop your speed down is seconds, yet takes 3 days+ for the speed to increase.... (In my case not increase above 2046Kbps.....)
Del, interleaving is set on mine at 64 bits. Not quite as deep as yours though. The profile seems to be some kind a stability profile that the DLM has put us on for some reason or other. In my case I think it may have been due to me rebooting my router frequently.
Does your speed ever vary from 2046 kbps? If not you (and I) must be set at a static speed. I.e not on a normal profile with upper and lower speed limits and tollerances. Maybe thats why the system isn't moving us to different profiles automatically.
I've had a call from the exec. office and yesterday a call from fault escalations. The guy was asking me all the usual like "have I turned off firewalls... do I use extention cables... etc. etc." I had to cut him short and tell him the problem myself. He went away and spoke to the supervisor and came back as saying "leave the router on and over the next 10 days your line will re-stabilise and your speed will come back up". He aknowleged that many customers are undergoing regrades at the moment, but only those who are capable of the really high speeds with current speeds significantly lower that their reported MSR. So if you are like me and stuck at 1Meg and can only expect around 4Meg, you won't see any improvement by waiting around. You need to take further action and contact higher authorities.
What is worrying though is that he kept referring to the estimated speed at registration that you saw on your Orange account page. Which in my case is 2.5Meg. (Much lower than what I have achieved in the past). I just hope they dont manually profile me at that speed. I just want it reset and the system to work my attainable speed out correctly.
Every 3 days the speed is automatically reviewed and increased if it is able to do so. If your speed is not increasing, it could be due to number of things.
These include noise on the line, your internal connection setup, as well as a number of other factors.
I am going for the big issue time now, national press etc etc
All calls from Orange logged...... emails do not say private.
I have really have, had enough.
I pay for a service, I pay for calling Orange, I pay for extra extra equipment.....
Del
PS
I have notify me when reply posted on..... but not coming through?
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