Joined: 13 Nov 2009Posts: 408Location: South East Essex
I can't find any reference to usage limits for current home BB plans. In fact this is extracted directly from 0range "All of our products come with unlimited usage allowances which are subject to our fair usage policy."
And the FUP basically asked for you to restrict big downloading to non-peak times (6pm-Midnight) which is reasonable.
Does the 'ModulationType' on your Livebox System Information page state 'ADSL_G.dmt' or 'ADSL2+'?
If it's the first you'll be in IPStream, second LLU.
No that's not quite accurate. G.DMT applies to both ADSL LLU and IPStream "up to 8meg".
I'm on 0range LLU and an "up to 8meg" package and my Livebox shows ADSL2+.
My line is capable of ~12Mbps but the Alcatel Line Management/Stabilization System simply caps my synch at 8Mbps which gives a noise magin of ~21dB.
If I synch below 8Mbps due either to a line fault or to me deliberately introducing noise onto the line then I always get an initial noise margin of ~10dB.
And the FUP basically asked for you to restrict big downloading to non-peak times (6pm-Midnight) which is reasonable.
It's not unreasonable. it would be nice of them to *tell us* what the limits are - after all, you can't obey them if you don't know what they are.
And this limit of 5 megs per month is very small. For instance, I like to watch various twit.live shows. As it's an American show, their 11am morning start corresponds to 7pm - in short, their entire live broadcast time is only in UK peak time.
While the bandwidth itself is a small 50-100K video stream, watching a hour show chews up 400megs in total. This means just watching the Three shows I most enjoy a week would go over the fair use policy.
I understand they have problems managing peak traffic, but it's get more and more like I'm paying for the top end originally "unlimited" use package, and I'm more and more having to watch my bandwidth, work out the bandwidth cost of doing something, and mentally juggling what I can and can't do, and whether this would me me above todays new FUP changes that are unpublished - knowing that, if I breach them, I do not get a warning, I get *immediate action* at Orange, rather than them asking and letting me change my behaviour, and I have to suffer the consequences.
I have no problem with a clearly defined policy, and informing customers when these changes to their policy happen, giving a fair warning to give customers a chance to change their behaviour before "punishing" them, giving tools to monitor the "limits" or your unlimited account so you can see and take actin, and generally being open and transparent about their service.
However, I find some of their "tactics" rather suspicious, to say the least. And all I've ever done, is pay my bills, and use (not abuse) my internet connection.
Last edited by beej on Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
It still should be listed somewhere in the admin panel as modulation or connection type or adsl type or something.
I'm fairly familiar with my router config and can't find anything that indicates as ADSL type or similar, even among the hidden secret router admin pages. I'll keep looking, but I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for - some of this terminology is new to me.
If one of those ADSL types is a new thing that's only being rolled out at a few exchanges, then it's likely my exchange hasn't been updated yet, as it's only a little backwater one - if that helps...
I agree. 5GB peak usage is totally unreasonable for something sold as unlimited in 2009/2010.
If Orange were honest and up-front they'd sell it like other companies would which'd be 5GB peak/unmetered off-peak, stating when the peak/off-peak times are.
The real gaul they have in the capping letters is that they ask you reduce your bandwidth usage to within their FUP, and if you do that for the next 3 months they'll remove the cap, but they still don't state what the limit of their FUP is! How are you supposed to obey this FUP if even after you've broken it, they still won't state what it is?
Last edited by absent on Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:48 pm; edited 2 times in total
I'm fairly familiar with my router config and can't find anything that indicates as ADSL type or similar, even among the hidden secret router admin pages. I'll keep looking, but I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for - some of this terminology is new to me.
The bottom line is, no, I'm not downloading 24/7, but I do use my connection more than, say, my parents who just do the occasional email and web surfing.
I've always bought the top end unlimited package *specifically* because I don't want to watch a byte counter and worry about what I do - like back on the days of dial upmodems, when you had to weigh up the cost of everything.
And yet, as my package prices increases in time, sometimes *very sneakily* so, it seems the *more* I have to make decisions about restricting my online use, and watch my bandwidth, while second guessing unpublished decisions on the FUP that are threatening to punish me for using the service I'm paying for.
Sure, they'd love everyone to pay for the unlimited account and only check their email Three times a week, because they'd make a killing. I understand heavy users downloading 10gigs a day cause performance problems, and it's expected that they should manage their network traffic accordingly.
But what happens if, now that I know about the 5gig peak limit, in a few months time their decide to make more bandwidth savings by reducing this to 2.5gigs a month? There's me, like a good user, *working* to *make sure* I'm not going over the 5gig FUP and whoops - I'm not in breach again, and are penalised *again* without a warning or a chance to change my behaviour based on changes to their FUP.
To me, that is completely FUPPed.
I have no problems with having to have a FUP - just publish the thing properly and provide tools to manage it.
Of course, the reason that they don't is that the do not want the negative marketing that these limits imply - thereby admitting that these limits do in fact reduce the advertised service and make it less desirable to choose Orange (or any other bb provider that does the same.)
"Get our BB package! It's awesome! *Subject to our random, changeable and unpublished limits which we won't tell you, but if you break, we will reduce the service you are paying for substantially and possibly disconnect you and withold the MAC code to prevent you going elsewhere."
Sorry, just venting a bit. Like many of you, the catalog of things that this company has done to me over the years is substantial. the problem is, in general the service is good, and I'm not sure anyone else is any better. Better the devil you know, etc.
Last edited by beej on Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
If it'll accept you number, give you your IP profile and then run a speedtest, you'll be on IPStream.
I tried that yesterday on the recommendation of someone on this thread - unfortunately, the web site just didn't work for me - it did the test and then just never showed any results.
I'll try again, bear with me...
Edit: Site doesn't work for me in Safari, Firefox 3, Firefox 3.5 or Opera.
I'll try later, but it's not exactly the worlds most accessible site.. (!)
Last edited by beej on Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
I tried that yesterday on the recommendation of someone on this thread - unfortunately, the web site just didn't work for me - it did the test and then just never showed any results.
I'll try again, bear with me...
Did it get to the point of doing the test then show an 'Internal Server Error'?
i.e. accept you number, give you a kbps rating on you line then do the test but give an internal server error?
No, the black bar java thing at the top finished the test and then nothing happened, the page just hung, nothing could be clicked on, no results shown...
In Firefox or Opera all I get is a black bar when trying to load the page, can't even get as far as running the test - I'll try it on a PC.
Of course, the reason that they don't is that the do not want the negative marketing that these limits imply - thereby admitting that these limits do in fact reduce the advertised service and make it less desirable to choose <a href="http://www.maccodes.co.uk" target="MAC">Orange</a> (or any other bb provider that does the same.)
Exactly. If they actually advertised 5GB peak for £20 a month or whatever, it would be obvious it's one of the worst value BB packages out there.
Last edited by absent on Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
No, the black bar java thing at the top finished the test and then nothing happened, the page just hung, nothing could be clicked on, no results shown...
In Firefox or Opera all I get is a black bar when trying to load the page, can't even get as far as running the test - I'll try it on a PC.
Maybe worth trying it during the day. The BT network speedtester can be overloaded during the evening.
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