Orange have outsourced much of this work to untrained staff from other companies. Basic problems are fixed but these are unusual times where Orange face complex issues and they CANT be solved by call centre staff.
Do not deal with anyone other than the North Tyneside, Bristol or Ex Wanadoo call centres. George Bolton is a great guy in North Tyneside and there are Orange Employees that care about your frustrations and whom can help you!
It is likely that Orange will pull a line test as soon as you complain and then tell you they cant see a problem. You then get asked to reset/config your PC/MODEM/ROUTER, sound familiar?
REFUSE, do not let them CLOSE the fault after the line test. THIS IS A GLITCH in their system and you will end up with 14 line test over 6 weeks and nothing to show for it. They should not close the fault as it still exists, line tests will not pick up the problem as it's their equipment that is faulty.
Demand that your fault is passed to FSD (Fault Service Delivery), only possible from Orange call centres in North Tyneside and Bristol. You will find there is no formal communication between Tech Support and FSD, however they can speak if you demand it. They will not give you a timescale but DEMAND a 5 day fix and ask for the next point of escallation. Engineering. Engineering is run by Alcatel, another company, they make the exchange equipment. They hate to send out an engineer, demand it. If you DEMAND it, they will come, although you will probably be asked to leave Orange first, say NO WAY, you broke it so you FIX it.
It took weeks of work to get this far, call 550 or 150 from your Orange mobile, speak only to the North Tyneside, Bristol or if you have to Ex Wanadoo Call Centres. They cant transfer you so just hang up and dial again. Good luck and dont let em ditch you as a customers, they have to sort this mess out. I am up and running again but DISGUSTED from Bristol.
Dont ask for a MAC - you dont need one if you are LLU, just ask them to cancel the line and BT will then (after 5 days) be able to hand it off to someone else.
i Work for Tech Support and Resolve 90% of cmr problems on a daily basis. i have 2 years of IT qualifications and am happy to do my JOB. the way you encouraging people to demand this and that is rather unfair to me as an individual trying to help. No one needs to demand anything in order to get assistance. Yes i agree that some people fobb cmr's off but at the end of the day if you have an ongoing LLU issue and all i can tell u is what i can see on my screan and nothing else otherwise i be lying or misleading you.
Complaints about the servise can be written to head office or recorded by escalations when you request to speak to a supervisor.
Here is the Question!
How does it help you when you get on the phone and Shout at the front line agent for a connection or LLU issue??????????? I rather one gets at me for failing to set up your livebox/ equipment.
_________________ THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT AND THE FUTURE IS Orange
Thanks for the advice, sven. Its too late for me, but maybe will help others. You've hit several issues on the head. For those of us without Orange mobile phones (and I must say Orange would be the last company I'd take my mobile contract to now that I have experienced their ISP support) then that could be a heck of a lot of landline phone calls
O-rangeFan. Sven, like most of us, is probably a calm and reasonable person when treated with respect and consideration. It is quite probable, though, that sven has been transformed into a complete raving psychopath by the Orange treatment! I know I have!!
Seriously though, the treatment some of us receive from Orange, however courteous and well intentioned, has the net result of insulting our intelligence and trying our patience to the limits.
* I have been without a service for over 6 weeks, having been told I would be without a service for 30 minutes.
* I have been given misinformation time and time again.
* I have been told to "call back in 24/48 hours" or "4/5 working days" and when I do, no progress has been made.
* I have had to continually take the initiative in trying to get the fault resolved.
* The few times I have had some "real" support, and the 3 occasions that somebody has actually called me with an update, (or not, as it happened) it appears that the people at the other end are "bending the rules" to do so.
If my experience is typical then it is no wonder people vent their frustration on frontline staff like you.
If what you can see on your screen is not helping resolve the problem, what can we customers do? The advice sven gives is solid.
Unfortunately, you people in the front line *are* Orange, (even if you're really working for Ventura, Garlands or IBM).
I'm afraid that even after demanding that my open fault be escalated, it remained "stuck" and, as you yourself have pointed out, Orange tech support like yourself have no means of directly communicating with Alcatel to get essential diagnostic engineering work done.
I have had good and bad treatment from tech support, but even the best have been gobsmacked at the fact that I still have no service, and even advised me to cancel my broadband account because they can't see any other way to resolve the deadlock. If you and they are powerless to escalate the call through FSD to Alcatel, what the hell are we to do?
Like sven, I am not a quitter. I'd rather put up with some inconvenience if that what it takes to get a problem resolved in a professional and competent manner. Unfortunately, there is a limit and, for me, that limit is the start of the Autumn term when my kids are going to need decent internet access for their education and my wife and I need to earn a living.
I agree with sven, closing your broadband account lets Orange off the hook. I'm sure that it is more cost-effective for Orange to let those of us with long-running unresolved problems like mine simply close down their account rather than fix the underlying communications problems within their own operation and get an engineer to take responsibility for finding out why my ADSL is not working so it can be fixed.
Having cancelled my broadband account I am still learning useful things. Here's something else to try:
Go to the BT website and go through the steps of signing up. Don't worry, you don't need to go all the say through to find out something like this:
Quote:
"This line is not guaranteed to support BT Total Broadband Option 1 due to its length and further checks will be required. Most lines will be found to be suitable, but the order may take longer than normal to complete. If the line is unsuitable, we'll contact you and refund any payment made You have selected BT Total Broadband Option 1. We estimate that the maximum speed your line can support is 3.5Mb. Your broadband service will take up to 10 days from first use to establish the actual maximum speed possible on your line."
Now, if BT are not confident that they can deliver 3.5Mb over the local loop, and need to carry out more checks, why didn't Orange take that into account before conning me into the 8Mb LLU "upgrade"?
Frankly, if I had known that I was only going to get 3.5 Mb and a two month broadband "holiday", then I'd have happily stuck with the USB 330 and 1Mb and downgraded my monthly payments as well.....
I'm with Pipped & Sven on this one. Nothing against the individuals I spoke to, some of them did try (Rochester & Bristol I think), but the others (especially overseas) just plain lied. Lots of "tea and sympathy" from them but absolutely no use what so ever. Faults came and went, things disappeared from the system. Lost track of the number of times I was told that their system was down so couldn't give me feedback on the many line tests.
I never really shouted. Only once did I growl "I give up" and hung up on them. They really do drive normal people to dispair.
I disagree that leaving Orange lets them off the hook though. They are a business and so long as they have customers then they won't care. If you can, then leave.
Also, it is not quite right to say that LLU customers don't need a MAC code. Some ISP's (I joined ZeN) let you off the start up charge if you have a MAC code.
I am experiencing my second major hiatus in Orange/Wanadoo service - lost the connection on Monday afternoon and have so far made 6 calls to Tech Support to try to get the problem sorted out.
The story so far:
Call one: wife on the phone about 40 minutes to call centre in Mumbai. Apart from the information that it's monsoon season over there and there is 30 ins of water in the streets, no result except an ineffective attempt to reset the LiveBox.
Two: later that same evening, spoke to a Saffer (probably not in Tyneside or Bristol) who got me to reset the LiveBox and then said they would do a line test and I should call back in two hours.
Three: gave up at about 11pm after half an hour holding for TS. This is expecially annoying as a) you get a recorded message every two minutes suggesting you may be able to resolve your problem on the Orange website; b) listening to awful muzak.
Four: Morning call to TS. Line test result = there is no fault! They will do another line test though and I am to call in the evening. Magic word: my problem will be escalated!
Five: After half an hour on hold, the line is cut off.
Six: Phone again and after 20 mins or so speak to another TS person who says the fault has been referred to BT. The fault seems to be at the local exchange and that in the next 24 hours a BT engineer will go there to fix the fault.
I am now waiting in suspense for this evening to find out if I'm back on.
Good to get that off my chest. Sven is quite right that there is no point mouthing off at the TS people, but on the other hand:
1) You need to be very wary of going though lots of hoops unplugging your LiveBox etc - get them to stick to the point, demand concrete action and a deadline.
2) The length of time you have to hold suggests either there are lots of people having problems or Orange do not have enough TS staff.
3) You HAVE to keep calling - otherwise nothing will happen.
4) The great injustice of this is that you are paying for a service Orange is not giving you. Imagine if the mobile phone network or the BBC periodically went up the spout and wouldn't come back unless you rang them on a daily basis to fix it?
Joined: 13 Aug 2006Posts: 1689Location: Marylebone Central London
Hi
I had nothing but problems since my exchange was LLU'd frequent outages then i experienced how bad CS and TS was it wasn't till i asked for a MAC code that i actually got some sign of some help i was offered a free month and a permenant £10 reduction of my broadband max package i thought about it and accepted which was quite a generous offer but unfortunately nothing changed no improvement in service whatsoever and constant slow speeds TS just wasn't interested mainly cos i dont use their livebox its crap and TS have no knowledge of other routers so rather than carry on with a shoddy service and costing a fortune in phone calls (only to either be told they can't do anything or have the phone put down on me and i stress that i was neither rude or unpleasant) i requested another MAC was quoted 48hrs but it never materialised and i only got it after i complained to the ISPA, its a shame as i was with them for 4 years from Freeserve thru to Orange but thankfully no longer.
i just feel for the people locked in a contract with them .
I hope you all get ur issues sorted.
All the best
Regards
Steve
BTW to the person who work for Orange in this thread its no reflection on you im sure you do your best i was just putting across my own experience .
_________________ ex Freeserve/Wanadoo/Orange Blog
10% are line issues and LLU problems. how am i to solve that?
So what happens to the 10% who have "line issues" or "LLU" problems then?
Are these the ones left in limbo for weeks or months on end with no solution in sight or offered? till the "problem" disapears because they have moved to a new ISP?
Lets not lose sight of the fact that regardless of they being LLU or LINE problems, customers are paying Orange for a service, it's up to Orange to force their suppliers, line provider, equipment supplier, engineers or whoever to move quickly.
The problem is still Oranges to resolve !
" how am i to solve that?"
If you don't know who else does?
It's not for me as a customer to know or be able to tell you how to solve it, you are the technical experts.
Might I suggest though, that if you can't resolve the customers problem, that YOU escalate it untill YOU have either found a solution or passed the problem on to the " expert " who can.
Yes i agree that some people fobb cmr's off but at the end of the day if you have an ongoing LLU issue and all i can tell u is what i can see on my screan and nothing else otherwise i be lying or misleading you.
Complaints about the servise can be written to head office or recorded by escalations when you request to speak to a supervisor.
Here is the Question!
How does it help you when you get on the phone and Shout at the front line agent for a connection or LLU issue??????????? I rather one gets at me for failing to set up your livebox/ equipment.
Well if you've sucha great track record I wish you were one of the people I got through to, I may as well have talked to next-door's cat for all the good it did me.
As regards what you have seen on screen... notes I've been told will be added to my account, mysteriously disappear before the next operator gets it... plus it seems to have some form of 'random excuse generator' , I've been told 20+ different reasons for no broadband over the last 5 weeks.
So lying and misleading people seems to be part of the job as far as I can tell.
I've had (supposedly) line tests performed but until today when the third was supposedly run, I actually got an answer, basically saying 'your line is incapable of supporting 8Mb' - well some weeks ago I pointed this fact out to the supposed tech support ..again like everything else, ignored..
oh and I HAVE written to head office(3 weeks ago) and received NO response, though when I complained to ISPA I got some action (albeit lame) after about 1.5 weeks.
Only when I have hinted I want out of this shoddy company, does anybody wake up. I am completely disconnected from the Internet (except dialup via a modem I had to BUY to get back on-line) thanks to this sh#tty company. It seems it will take them 2 weeks to disconnect an already disconnected service. The fact children might read this page is the only reason I don't declare my true feelings for this company :
Orange LLU = Orange Lame Lazy & Useless
The future could never be bright if Orange has anything to do with it
10% are line issues and LLU problems. how am i to solve that?
Do you not have a tier 2 or a faults team. There shoud be a team of dedicated line faults specialists with their own escalation paths to BPS and to nework support (exchanges).
This is what it is about LLU. I understand your frustration and all that you have suggested has been recomended by tech support as well. i dont enjoy telling people to ring back after 48hrs for an update. Its the fact that i wont be having an update at all! Simple and straight forward. We have a fault management team who are great. i can personally ring BT and trace up a faults. either for an update or basically just to get an answer as to when it will be completed. The point that i am trying to put across is the fact that there is NO WAY anyone in the company, be it fault manager, escalations or even the team leaders and managers! NO WAY what so ever of ringing up Alcatel for an LLU line test update.
All we got is the Fault management system that we use to log the fault, and hopefully update it and inform the cmr with an update (If there is one)
It seems like Tech support is at blame but it is totaly out of our hands . and we have put it forward that some sort of action be taken in regards of communication btwn our selves and alkatel who manage the LLU network
_________________ THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT AND THE FUTURE IS Orange
This is what it is about LLU. I understand your frustration and all that you have suggested has been recomended by tech support as well. i dont enjoy telling people to ring back after 48hrs for an update. Its the fact that i wont be having an update at all! Simple and straight forward. We have a fault management team who are great. i can personally ring BT and trace up a faults. either for an update or basically just to get an answer as to when it will be completed.The point that i am trying to put across is the fact that there is NO WAY anyone in the company, be it fault manager, escalations or even the team leaders and managers! NO WAY what so ever of ringing up Alcatel for an LLU line test update.
All we got is the Fault management system that we use to log the fault, and hopefully update it and inform the cmr with an update (If there is one)
It seems like Tech support is at blame but it is totaly out of our hands . and we have put it forward that some sort of action be taken in regards of communication btwn our selves and alkatel who manage the LLU network
"i dont enjoy telling people to ring back after 48hrs for an update. Its the fact that i wont be having an update at all!
Why the hell do you tell them to ring back then in 48 hours when you know , as you admit above, that there won't be an update ?
Not honest is it ?
Still it's not your time and money being stuck on the Orange train to nowhere is it ?
"We have a fault management team who are great."
Whos opinion is that then ? apparently not customers .
"i can personally ring BT and trace up a faults. either for an update or basically just to get an answer as to when it will be completed."
News to me, no one has ever done this with my problems, iIhave always been asked to ring back in 2 hrs, 24 hrs, 48 hrs 5 days !!!! or whatever the random number generator throws out at the time!
"The point that i am trying to put across is the fact that there is NO WAY anyone in the company, be it fault manager, escalations or even the team leaders and managers! NO WAY what so ever of ringing up Alcatel for an LLU line test update. "
WELL WHY NOT BE HONEST AND TELL THE CUSTOMER THIS,
What a wonderfull state of affairs when Orange tech support (whilst trying their best to solve problems) are unable to ask their suppliers,of equipment and engineeing, Alcatel if there are any problems with ORANGES OWN equipment ! Is the tail wagging the dog here ?
"All we got is the Fault management system that we use to log the fault, and hopefully update it and inform the cmr with an update If there is one"
Hopefully and if there is one is not good enough.
"It seems like Tech support is at blame but it is totaly out of our hands . and we have put it forward that some sort of action be taken in regards of communication btwn our selves and alkatel who manage the LLU network"
Agree with you here but when you can go no further with a fault due to the above why not be honest with the customer and simply say " sorry I can't go any further with your fault due there being no facilities for me to contact our exchange engineers, Alcatel, to check for a LLU line fault"
Agree with you here but when you can go no further with a fault due to the above why not be honest with the customer and simply say " sorry I can't go any further with your fault due there being no facilities for me to contact our exchange engineers, Alcatel, to check for a LLU line fault"
I get your point but according to the way we are trained we have to be positive and we only goin by the book when we inform you to either ring back after 5 days or 48hrs which ever the case. but i can asure you that a great percentage of the cases are solved within the period specified
_________________ THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT AND THE FUTURE IS Orange
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