I am an Orange Broadband unlimited customer since February 2007.
I was also happy with the offer to be able to call FREE to 100 destinations (however used only 1 most of the time). Me and my wife get used to it over the time and she was so happy to talk to our children. It was FREE to call either landline or mobile.
and now I suddenly have noticed a huge (over £200 ) charge on my bank statement (DD payment to Orange).
I called Orange straight away. My call was transferred to their escalation team where I was told that due to some technical problem LIVEBOX couldn't recognise calls to int. mobile numbers and therefore it was FREE, but not anymore: after 21.01.08all int.mobile calls are chargeable. I did agree that from now on I will be careful but why Orange didn't notify us by e-mail, letter, or by a text message, so we could avoid this huge bill.??
Orange said they send an e-mail. I have checked all e-mails from Orange and there was nothing of the kind. Howevere, I requested a copy and received the e-mail today, 08/02/2008.
Q1: Does anyone experience the same problem?
Q2: Do I have to pay this bill if I wasn't aware about the issue?
Q3: In our old contract (which I can not find now on their website) as I remember was no difference between mobile and landline calls. Or am I wrong? What chances do we have of getting the refund for that month?
Joined: 23 Dec 2007Posts: 43Location: Deptford, London
D*mn! I didn't know that there was error - as in Livebox couldn't recognise int'l mobile number! Otherwise I could have made calls to int'l mobile also!!
Sorry to hear your problems. But I'd say the terms and conditions actually say clearly that only calls to "landline" numbers are free though. Presumably they have all records of your past calls to int'l mobile and you also can't deny that you didn't know that those numbers were mobile.
Though this is Orange's technical problem but it doesn't mean that you can "legallly" benefit from this error. And I would guess that they might reply back to you that they don't have to inform you once they fix this problem - since the customers were not eligible to those int'l mobile calls at the first place.
You can try to twist things around or simply negotiate with them to waive those charges for you either partially or wholly. Good luck
As far as I know the call costs before the error was fixed weren't backcharged, they could have done that if they really wanted to which I'm sure would have made that bill a lot bigger.
Yes, it was. That's exactly what my point is about. They didn't inform anyone ( I assume).
The way we found out it was FREE to call mobile - by trying couple of times as it was not clear from the information we had, that mobile lines were or were not included in the FREE calls option (at least to the country we were calling). That's why we had decided to check it out.
Thanks for your input Elhana. I will try to write them a letter and see what happens next. The only problem, I can not find the initial offer and Terms & Conds, which were published a year ago and it will be difficult for me to prove.
Best wishes to all of you.
Elhana wrote:
No, but then again I wouldn't receive one anyway.
Still there was supposed to be an email sent out to inform everyone about it from what I've read.
Joined: 23 Dec 2007Posts: 43Location: Deptford, London
I didn't save terms & conditions either but I have the price tariff of that plan. Again refer to my previous post it did say though that free calls only to landline in 100 countries (the one applicable after 25 Oct 06).
Don't know how to post that price tariff on this forum.
Orange guided me to their original terms on the website, where is clearly written that fee call to landline only. I didn't much argue with that as understood myself can't everything be free.
All I was trying to explain that since they have realised there is an error (their system wasn't recognising calls to mobile numbers to 1 (or maybe more) countries from the list) - they should have let me know and make sure that I and all other customers got their message, instead of thinking how much cash they can generate to recover their loss untill cusomers find out. If this error became known from the beginning of the month (billing period) - I would found out about it only at the end of the month when check my bank statement. Imagine the amount of my Orange bill then...
Orange refused any (full or partial) refund motivating that those calls were chargeable at the 1st place.
I think I can not win here. I can not make them understand that their error is not my fault, that we continued to make those calls since we saw from their bills that calls are not chargeable. (I don't think anyone would call them and say sorry you have forgotten to charge me for couple of calls to mobile phone lines (provided you wasn't so sure if these calls supposed to be chargeable in the 1st place).
But, never mind. I am sure there always be some points to prove I wasn't right. I will pay the bill as I need to move on.
What elese should I have been expecting from O?
My voicemail service on 2nd line (120) isn't working for 3 month now. After number of calls to INDIA (I mean technical support team) I gave up.
I bought a new phone with answering system from Panasonic and resolved problem myself.
BEST WISHES TO EVERYONE AND THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT.
Hello
I was interested in the post from 'talk unlimited' regarding charges for international mobile as we have had the same problem. I have been a Broadband Unlimited customer since January 2007 and similarly experieced HUGE bills after 21st January 2008 after calling international mobile. I am convinced I saw this originally free on their website (not a PDF file, but on the web page) as I remember telling several people what a good deal it was to be able to call international landline and international mobile free. Someone I know with the same package as me is also sure it said free to international mobile on the webpage (well, at least to the country we were interested in). I had no reason to think I should be charged for international mobile and called in good faith because I thought it was free. Unfortunately, I did not print a copy of the webpage, I wish I had!
Orange told me they sent an email on 17th January informing customers of the Livebox error whereby it could not distinguish between international landline and international mobile, but I did not receive any email in January 2008 to this effect, and the first I knew about this was over £340 gone from our bank account and another £300 waiting to be debited for the following month. The same person I know (as above) on the same package as me said they did not receive that email either. Obviously, once I knew Orange were charging for international mobile I stopped calling immediately, as anyone would at £1 a minute!
I requested a copy of the January email but so far all I have got is pasted in text, not an actual copy email, or even what the heading consisted of, and they tell me as the email was automated I can only have the text of the email. The text began, 'Hello, Oops, we've made a mistake on some of your second line call charges.....'
I am still trying to sort this out with Orange, but please HAS ANYONE ELSE OUT THERE HAD THIS SAME PROBLEM AND DID NOT RECEIVE THE JANUARY EMAIL INFORMING Orange CUSTOMERS OF THE LIVEBOX ERROR? Or, did anyone else think international mobile was free to begin with?
Thanks for reading, I hope we can get a bit further with this.
I believe the pages didn't directly reference free calls or landlines or mobiles but rather just "international", I'd check the internet archive but it seems unavailable at the moment.
Anyway the actual price list pdf has always listed them as chargable so arguing may be tough.
Hi
Thanks for the reply but as I remember it, it said 'Nepal landline' - then next column - 'FREE'
underneath that 'Nepal Mobile' - next colum - 'FREE'.
I have had links to the archive, but when I looked at that, it isn't set out how it was when I looked at it showing both were free.
I am still hopeful of receiving a proper copy of the missing January email, just have to keep talking and writing to them at the moment!
Joined: 16 Dec 2006Posts: 108Location: North Essex
Well, I didn't receive any email, but then I've never called a mobile internationally, so perhaps I wouldn't have been targeted. (Although targeting sounds beyond Orange to me..)
However, I do have a copy of the old call prices. This one was effective in November 2006 (and possibly earlier), but I don't think it was changed until the relatively recent pricing revision (which didn't apply to old accounts anyway). I'm afraid it doesn't support your cause - international mobile charges are grouped into Three price brackets, with Nepal in the most expensive of these at £1 per minute. (Ouch.)
Anyway, I've published the price list here:
[price list now removed to avoid confusion]
Let me know when you've finished with it, and I'll take it down - it could mislead people, given that it's out of date now.
HTH (or at least clarifies)
Last edited by simondaw on Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hi
Thanks so much for taking the trouble to reply and post the pricing list. Sorry I haven't replied sooner. Orange themselves gave me a knowledge base number on their website with a price list on it that looks similar and I do agree that it says a £1 a minute to Nepal mobile. It is myself and the other person I know that are sure we saw a different pricing plan on a web page (not a pdf file) and this was accessed through a link on Orange web page which brought up a further page. I still think there could have been human error involved whereby an incorrect web page was posted, but impossible to prove unless they have a backup of their website, but then I need to know when I actually think I viewed that page. It would have been some time in November or December 2006 I should think.
Additionally, I find it very interesting that, like me, you didn't receive an email on 17th January 2008 regarding an error on the Livebox which meant that it couldn't recognise the difference between international landline and international mobile. Like you, I cannot see that Orange would only have sent the mail to users of international mobile. Also, as anyone could suddently find themselves needing to ring international mobile they would need to read that email, so I imagine it would have been sent to all users. This is the text in full of the said email, although they still can't tell me the title of the email itself.
'Hello, Oops, we've made a mistake on some of your second line call charges (the phone you use through your Livebox), which has actually resulted in good news for you, but bad news for us.
As part of your broadband package, you get some inclusive calls through your second line. But, because of an error on our part, you may have been making calls to international mobiles without being charges for them.
The good news is, we won't be back-dating any charges or anything like that. But as per your terms of use, we will have to start charging you for calls to international mobiles from now on.
We're sorry about this, and we wanted to give you advanced warning to let you know about the charges. If you want to check any call charges, you can click here to see the Orange Home phone tariff guide.
Thanks,
Customer Support
There must be other people besides you, myself, Talk Unlimited' username and the person I know that the email didn't reach. Orange say the email went out to me, but then emails do get 'lost'.
Please could you explain what you mean by 'HTH (or at least clarifies)' at the bottom of your post.
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