Joined: 13 Aug 2006Posts: 1689Location: Marylebone Central London
moni wrote:
i called yesterday and finally got through to someone who could actually speak proper english and he told me there were many others with similar problems and he couldn't discuss the matter with his boss as he was having his dinner at the time. .
lol it gets worse
_________________ ex Freeserve/Wanadoo/Orange Blog
I have the same problem and got the letter saying we may reduce your speed during 6pm - midnight for downloading 41.25GB July/Aug. I have raised the issue of the FUP with Orange before and asked where is the limit stated. I have had 3 separate emails this year from Orange Customer Support confirming the limit is set at 50GB for downloads.
I was livid therefore getting the letter and sent a letter to Orange with copies of the emials they had sent to me and saying is this reasonable? I got a reply that covered nothing I had said. I was told on the phone I hadn't been capped and would get a letter telling me if I was to be, no such letter has replied.
I noticed over the weekend and still now my speed is below 500kb/s. I phoned Orange yesterday and got fobbed off with a line test,etc. i said it is your line cap profile has been put on permanently and not between the hours stated. Yet another useless Orange trial they cannot get to work properly. They said I had been capped since 22nd Oct. Rubbish! Up until this weekend I have at all times been getting 5-6mb and 2-4mb peak times.
They really haven't a clue and I am so annoyed at being told 3 times the limit is 50GB and then being pennalies for going over 40GB and now have a capped speed all the time due to their incompetence. I asked them to show me in th T&Cs and FP where the limit is stated. The first woman I spoke to insisted it was there but conveniently said she couldn't access. I said I could and it hasn't been revised since Feb 2006 and states no limit. How can you enforce a limit that isn't stated anywhere.
I didn't sign upto this incompetence and cap. I got my MAC and yesterday registered with Sky and hopefully I will be migrated to them in about 10 days. There Mid package is £5 a month with a stated limit of 40GB so you know what you are playing with. At least if I start to exceed this I can go to the £10 a month Max package which has 250GB and not be capped,etc.
The limit used to be 50gig but it's vaiable and not even internally stated directly, just when a list of accounts that have overused is provided it usually says what the limit was at the time.
Generally the cap cannot be removed by 1st or 2nd level support, they don't have the authority to do it by themselves. However the cap being permanent wasn't factored into that so I don't know what's going to happen there. Generally you'd need to go higher to get it removed but unless there's a clear reason it's unlikely to be taken off and the usage reset to scratch.
Essencially the cap was an alternative to warning/termination and only just a trial. One thing was made clear though in what I read, if the line is capped at 1/2 meg because of being capped due to overusage (getting 1/2 meg in itself isn't a get out clause for the contract) then you can get out of the contract without penalty.
Thankfully i was no longer under contract so off i go.
Elhana, having 3 emails from Alan, Scott and Helen in Customer Support all stating the limit is 50GB was it then fair to get penalised for one month using 41.25GB?! When I rang i was told it was now 40Gb!. Who told me? Did Orange email me, no! Does it say on Orange's website, no!. Does it show in the FUP, no!
How can Orange penalise customers fro breaking a limit on 'Unlimited' packages when they haven't a clue what the limit is. I took the time out to ask and still et penalised for staying under the limit i was told.
This is gross incompetence and very poor customer service. Orange lose another customer through their own fault and poor service.
Joined: 13 Aug 2006Posts: 1689Location: Marylebone Central London
Orange are probably trying to make room for the customers that took up their free laptop offer to make up for the mass exodus of the summer, short of offering an exchange all to yourself and a 5 year contract it makes you wonder what their next bribe will be to get more customers to sign up for their
unlimited broadband.
_________________ ex Freeserve/Wanadoo/Orange Blog
I called today again asking why my line hasn't been fixed. The reply i got was to do more speed test check my filters my livebox etc etc. I know for a fact there is nothing wrong my end and a guy told me on sunday that my line had been capped but every other person is denying any knowledge of it. The woman i spoke to today said she was pass it on to the engineers to fix it yet i was told on sunday it would take 48 hours she is saying it will take up to 5 days for it to be fixed and i told her other people were having the same problems but she acted dumb. I am really very about this situation and was wondering if i call asking for a MAC would they have the right to ask me for the remainder of my contract to them because basicallt they are breaking their own contract by inflicting this line cap thing and lying about unlimited downloads.
if i call asking for a MAC would they have the right to ask me for the remainder of my contract to them because basicallt they are breaking their own contract by inflicting this line cap thing and lying about unlimited downloads.
Yes if you are still in contract. But you have not mentioned if you do download a significant amount.
Even if Orange don't state download limits they have an FUP which they are quite within their rights to invoke on whoever they deem has exceeded a reasonable download amount.
I don't think you have a chance of getting your connection fixed if you are "download blacklisted".
But if there is a known FUP then Orange can move the goalposts as they wish.....and have done because once it was 50gig now it's 40gig. No doubt it will reduce even further if Orange gain enough customers who keep downloading in excess of 30gig per month.
The point is, there is a known FUP; there is deliberately no stated download limit so that they are able to invoke FUP whenever they want. So if you want to download in excess of, say, 25gig per month then don't sign up with Orange.
Joined: 13 Aug 2006Posts: 1689Location: Marylebone Central London
Borednow wrote:
I know.....I'm not justifying it.
But if there is a known FUP then Orange can move the goalposts as they wish.....and have done because once it was 50gig now it's 40gig. No doubt it will reduce even further if Orange gain enough customers who keep downloading in excess of 30gig per month.
The point is, there is a known FUP; there is deliberately no stated download limit so that they are able to invoke FUP whenever they want. So if you want to download in excess of, say, 25gig per month then don't sign up with Orange.
Sorry i dont agree with you how can you say "So if you want to download in excess of, say, 25gig per month then don't sign up with Orange" when they clearly advertise "unlimited"? the average customer will take that as truly unlimited not 40 or 50g or whatever they feel like in that week and Orange know that.
_________________ ex Freeserve/Wanadoo/Orange Blog
the average customer will take that as truly unlimited not 40 or 50g or whatever they feel like in that week and Orange know that.
Exactly my point.....they have in the past and will in future vary the download limit. If they wrote it into T&Cs then they would need to keep re-writing the T&Cs.
It's easier and more convenient not to state a figure but to have FUP.....this type of business strategy isn't rocket science and it isn't classified as "unfair contract terms".
Edit: I forgot....it's also convenient to them that you can't monitor your monthly download using an Orange product....you have to use a 3rd party program if you're interested.
Joined: 13 Aug 2006Posts: 1689Location: Marylebone Central London
Some smaller ISP's now have usage graphs in your account IDNet for one and clear usage limits which im sure will be a growing trend in time, with people gradually getting wise to the larger ISP's, these dishonest tactics will gradually become a thing of the past as not so many people will be falling for it. just like CS and speed is a prime customer concern more these days.
Which will be a good thing
_________________ ex Freeserve/Wanadoo/Orange Blog
It's important to remember that , AFAIK at least, FUP's have yet to be legally tested. Any real threat is quickly settled out of court as they simply don't want any sort of precedent being set on them, the chance of getting a ruling against them simply isn't worth the risk.
I've not heard of Orange doing it but have with a couple of other ISP's previously, thats mainly due to how FUP breaching is acted upon.
In contract law there must be substance within a clause such as FUP. There is as such no substance in the Orange FUP T&Cs.
If the FUP clause stated that the maximum download limit was <40Gb per month then that would stand up in court.
If the FUP clause stated :- "All we ask is that you download outside the peak hours of 6pm to 11pm." then that would not stand up in court. Because it infers a voluntary act.
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broadband.
about this situation and was wondering if i call asking for a 
