Actually you'll find Raybo's 'ranting' does achieve something. Not only does his posts serve to highlight the misgivings of Orange but also serves to inform the general public that the problem has not gone away.
Actually, if you read my post correctly you will see that it is not about Raybo advising others about Oranges poor service, but about not achieving end goals with Orange when experiencing problems.
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His voice is one of many that have exposed what Orange is doing and continues to do so- to dismiss his views as rants is insulting.
Commenting on someones views, especially when you disagree, is hardly being dismissive. A forum is a medium for open discussion and as such you will always getting differing opinions. I may not agree with Raybos approach but I respect his right to air his/her opinions.
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Ok, if you don't 'like' his style of expression, well we all can't be as eloquent as some now can we?...
Ah, now the big boys are coming out to play.
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As far as I have read (which is alot), there are NUMEROUS reports of people leaving Orange and getting the service they expect from other ISPS, not only here but other forums too . LOL, Orange was not voted the worst ISP by watchdog on a whim- its proof. These 'general' comments are actually based on facts. Now, if you have data on the contrary, then I'm sure we will be corrected, but you don't you only have your opinion, while we have proof.
My point exactly, numerous people have left Orange and reported a better service, but then probably distorted by those we do not hear from. As far as the survey goes. Orange got everything they deserved but it really proved to be a distorted survey. For example ISP A has 10,000 customers and 10% report into the survey complaining of crap service. ISP B has 1,000,000 customers and also 10% of the customers report in about crap service. Realistic and accurate survey. Depends how you want the result to come out. What I found strange was that BT came out as best out of 29 but eqaully was 4th worse out 29. Talk, Talk 5th on best list but 4th on worse list. Tiscali 4th best yet 4th worst. Orange 7th best but 1st worst. As the survey indicated it was a numbers game, as opposed to a proper scientific approach, and therefore the big players were always going to benefit and lose in the results tables. Had they taken a proportional approach by comparing number of customer responses to number of actual customers then we would have ended up with a more meaningful picture. Certainly, Watchdog, true to form took its normal tabloid approach in presenting the article.
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Quality might Be Broadband, care to comment on its reliability?
Only from my prospective. Which is that I am happy with the quality and reliabilty.
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And to say the 12 month contract issue is somewhat irrelavant LOL. You know this is not the case Tvman- its VERY relevant.
Ah, so you now know what I think. Infact, my point was that someone with a 100% service with good download speeds is going to be less concerned with contractural issues than someone who is experiencing big problems and wants to move on.
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Until I get the service I am paying for, I personally will continue to tell it as it as it is- which is Orange is at the bottom of ISPs for valid reasons. Can you give valid reasons why people should join Orange? Thought not...
Let me answer if you don't mind because you are unlikely to know what I'm thinking and therefore my thoughts.
Yes, I can give valid reasons for joining Orange but equally I can also give valid reasons for not joining. But then thats taking a balanced view, which is sometimes to be frowned on this forum. It appears that opinions and views sometimes count for nothing and you are expected to sit firmly on the opposite side of the fence that is not Orange.
Actually, if you read my post correctly you will see that it is not about Raybo advising others about Oranges poor service, but about not achieving end goals with Orange when experiencing problems.
In fact I did read your post correctly and it is you that is now attempting spin your comments as if did not mean to say that Raybos 'rants' are pointless and don't do anything.
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Commenting on someones views, especially when you disagree, is hardly being dismissive. A forum is a medium for open discussion and as such you will always getting differing opinions. I may not agree with Raybos approach but I respect his right to air his/her opinions.
Right ok, heres some contradiction here. You say you respect his right to air his/her opinion, yet you say he is ranting- I don't know about you but this is insulting, and not being respectful.
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My point exactly, numerous people have left Orange and reported a better service, but then probably distorted by those we do not hear from. As far as the survey goes. Orange got everything they deserved but it really proved to be a distorted survey. For example ISP A has 10,000 customers and 10% report into the survey complaining of crap service. ISP B has 1,000,000 customers and also 10% of the customers report in about crap service. Realistic and accurate survey. Depends how you want the result to come out. What I found strange was that BT came out as best out of 29 but eqaully was 4th worse out 29. Talk, Talk 5th on best list but 4th on worse list. Tiscali 4th best yet 4th worst. Orange 7th best but 1st worst. As the survey indicated it was a numbers game, as opposed to a proper scientific approach, and therefore the big players were always going to benefit and lose in the results tables. Had they taken a proportional approach by comparing number of customer responses to number of actual customers then we would have ended up with a more meaningful picture. Certainly, Watchdog, true to form took its normal tabloid approach in presenting the article.
Ok, this is where I prove you wrong again. You claim that Watchdogs findings were flawed? (your interpretation is also somewhat flawed too but I'll let that slide). Please comment on findings of this page:
These findings are not only as a result of a longer period, but are actually on-going. The data also includes a larger number of ISPs. Guess what? Orange is still bottom. In fact this data merely serves to confirm what watchdog found. Are you going insinuate this data is flawed too? LOL.
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Only from my prospective. Which is that I am happy with the quality and reliabilty.
Congratulations! No , really, I mean it- Law of averages says that someone has to be happy right? Orange loves you for being so.
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Ah, so you now know what I think. Infact, my point was that someone with a 100% service with good download speeds is going to be less concerned with contractural issues than someone who is experiencing big problems and wants to move on.
And what about those who may have 100% service with good download speeds, but have to relocate? The only reason for Orange to introduce the longer contracts was purely for financial benefit- win-win situation for Orange. I don't need to read your mind for you to know this...Because if I did, I'd know weather or not you work in Oranges PR department .
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Let me answer if you don't mind because you are unlikely to know what I'm thinking and therefore my thoughts.
Yes, I can give valid reasons for joining Orange but equally I can also give valid reasons for not joining. But then thats taking a balanced view, which is sometimes to be frowned on this forum. It appears that opinions and views sometimes count for nothing and you are expected to sit firmly on the opposite side of the fence that is not Orange.
I will bet my house that your reasons for joining Orange will pale into comparison with those for not joining. You may have a 'balanced view', but it certainly won't be realistic.
I'll re-iterate- theres justified reasons why Orange is languishing at the bottom of the ISP foodchain, to suggest that Oranges services are actually better than we think and doesn't deserve to be the "Worst ISP", flies in the face of everyones experience, evidence from other forums, and media information.
I always love the old adage "but what about the happy ones, they don't say anything". This a cop out, and its normally used as an excuse to poo poo findings. What about the unhappy ones that don't make themselves heard? Or ISP's that get really good ratings- are these ISP's offering 'bad' services but their users are accidentally voting 'good'?!?
If tomorrowm, Orange, magically gave me 6meg+, waived my 12 month contract, explained and apologised for their service- that just might sway my opinion of Orange and tell me "Yes, Orange are making amends". But what are the chances of that happening hmmm?
Opinions are like a****oles- everyone has one, and is entitled to one. But you better bring evidence to back it up, otherwise its easy to get labelled a PR chump.
In fact I did read your post correctly and it is you that is now attempting spin your comments as if did not mean to say that Raybos 'rants' are pointless and don't do anything.
Yes. I stand corrected and perhaps the use of 'ranting was inappropriate. However, in using this unfortunate word it was never meant to be insulting and implying that Raybos approach was pointless.
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Right ok, heres some contradiction here. You say you respect his right to air his/her opinion, yet you say he is ranting- I don't know about you but this is insulting, and not being respectful.
In using this word, which I now agree was inappropriate, was never the less my opinion. I think Raybo and many others on here use more inappropriate language but thats for them. I know I don't feel insulted/offended when such language is used.
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Ok, this is where I prove you wrong again. You claim that Watchdogs findings were flawed? (your interpretation is also somewhat flawed too but I'll let that slide).
Purely a difference of views. As a matter of opinion I stand by what I said re the Watchdog survey. Yes I am aware of the information on the site you highlighted re Orange being bottom of the ladder.
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These findings are not only as a result of a longer period, but are actually on-going. The data also includes a larger number of ISPs. Guess what? Orange is still bottom. In fact this data merely serves to confirm what watchdog found. Are you going insinuate this data is flawed too? LOL.
To be honest I don't know as there is no underlying information as to how the final results were arrived at.
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Congratulations! No , really, I mean it- Law of averages says that someone has to be happy right? Orange loves you for being so.
I could'nt give a toss if Orange likes/loves me or not. Thats not what I pay them for. All I know at the moment is they are providing me with what I require and are probably doing so for many others.
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And what about those who may have 100% service with good download speeds, but have to relocate? The only reason for Orange to introduce the longer contracts was purely for financial benefit- win-win situation for Orange. I don't need to read your mind for you to know this...Because if I did, I'd know weather or not you work in Oranges PR department .
Beginning to go down some dusty road with no end in sight. What are you on about?
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You may have a 'balanced view', but it certainly won't be realistic.
I think the whole point of taking a balanced view is that you look at all sides of the arguement before making an opinion. That way you are hopefully not seen as being self rightouus and blinkered.
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Opinions are like a****oles- everyone has one, and is entitled to one.
Well apparently not from your last post. But hey, thats your opinion of the situation and good luck to you.
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But you better bring evidence to back it up, otherwise its easy to get labelled a PR chump.
Someone makes both postive and negative remarks about Orange and the anti-Orange brigade pick up on the latter and accuse them of sleeping with the enemy. Read my previous posts and you will see that I am no fan of Orange and have on many occasion expressed opinions to that effect.
I'm having the same problem through a livebox. It's been down since 5th April and I have to call them everyday to keep them on their toes (doesn't seem to be working though). The @ light is flashing every second which means it's something to do with the internet connection, but they still go on about checking that the wireless connection is working properly which it is as my wireless printer is working fine.
They said they were going to be sending an engineer out to look at the exchange, but some on here say it's to do with the Orange side of things.
btw. they tried to fob me off by saying they do not support my wireless card, but I said I tried it through a wired connection and they tried to help.
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