<Livebox Issues? ~ Livebox - large bill from BT for calls made on 2nd line
BuddhaSatan
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:32 pm
Joined: 18 Aug 2008Posts: 4
I'm about to enter a dispute with Orange and maybe BT over an enormous bill I have received from BT for calls to Nicaragua. The calls were made using my Orange Broadband internet phone, which connects via the Orange Livebox modem. Calls to Nicaragua using this phone are completely free. Calls via the BT network are between £1 and £2 per minute
I have spoken to the Orange customer service zombies and have, of course, been given the complete run-a-round. Whilst some of them say that the Livebox 2nd line phone will never re-route itself via the BT phone, others DO say that, if for any reason, the Livebox modem cuts out or loses power then the Livebox 2nd line phone WILL automatically re-route itself via BT network. This leaves open the possibility that my Livebox, for whatever reason, lost power for a few days and my family continued using the phone as normal because it still gave a dial tone when they picked it up. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Orange would have designed the system to work in this way. Surely it leaves them wide open to the possibility of a tide of complaints from customers, such as me, who unwittingly find themselves landed with a large BT bill. Surely if the Livebox loses power or is not switched on then the 2nd line phone should just simply cut out.
I then trawled through the Terms and conditions and found the following which specifically refers to the 2nd line internet telephone service:
Please note the following important points in relation to the (Live Box 2nd line) Service:
22.2.2 it will not work in the event of a power cut or failure and such failures may be caused by reasons outside of our control. You are responsible for the supply of electrical power to the Equipment and the Livebox. This means that in a power cut or failure you will not be able to make or receive any voice calls including calls to 999/112 emergency services. You should always have an alternative way of accessing 999/112 emergency services;
22.2.3 it will not work if your Home Broadband line or Livebox is faulty;
So, it seems I am responsible for the supply of power to the Livebox, which is fair enough, but as I understand these paragraphs, if the Livebox DOES lose power then the 2nd line internet phone will not work. It says absolutely nothing about re-routing via BT at BT rates (which as we all know are incredibly expensive for International calls)
To add, further to the confusion, under the HELP AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT section of the Orange Livebox website I found the following, which supports what the customer service zombies say, but which also appears to completely contradict the terms and conditions:
[b]second line - can I still make calls if there's a power failure?
Article ID: kb406 If the Livebox is turned off or in the event of a power failure, you can still call using the phone linked to your Livebox but these calls will be automatically made using your 'normal' telephone line rather than via our second line service, and will be charged at your landline phone provider's rates.[/b]
Has anyone out there experienced anything similar? As far as I'm concerned I have a strong case against Orange because their own Terms and Conditions say absolutely nothing about the Livebox 2nd line re-routing via BT in the event of power loss. At the moment I am feeling incredibly frustrated as BT are demanding almost £400.00 for 6 telephone calls which were made via my Livebox 2nd line phone and which should have cost me nothing. Comments / Advice, please.
[b]second line - can I still make calls if there's a power failure?
Article ID: kb406 If the Livebox is turned off or in the event of a power failure, you can still call using the phone linked to your Livebox but these calls will be automatically made using your 'normal' telephone line rather than via our second line service, and will be charged at your landline phone provider's rates.[/b]
Unfortunately, it does state what happens when the livebox has no power for whatever reason. It looks like you've learned a costly lesson. You can only try to negotiate with Orange to lessen the financial impact.
I agree that there should be a failsafe method of notifying you when your call is being routed back through the BT network so you can decide whether to continue the call or not.
This paragraph does not form part of the Terms and Conditions but is to be found under HELP and TECHNICAL SUPPORT. Surely, it should be written into the TERMS AND CONDITIONS
Yes, that's why I said "there should be a failsafe method of notifying you when your call is being routed back through the BT network so you can decide whether to continue the call or not"
But check the T&Cs thoroughly before you commence discussions with Orange.
the help and support Article ID: kb404 also advises how to make calls via the livebox :-
Quote:
Before you make a call using second line, make sure that the telephone light on the top of your Livebox is lit and that you have a touchtone phone plugged into the phone adapter.
When you pick up the phone plugged into your Livebox you'll hear:
five short beeps followed by a normal dial tone
short whistle, 2 short beeps followed by a normal dial tone
dial tone, interrupted by a bleep every second (you have voicemail waiting)
The telephone light on the top of your Livebox will be lit and begin to flash while a call is in progress.
So there are audio and visual signs that the call is VOIP via the Livebox and not being redirected through your BT landline.
_________________ The best & most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart. Helen Keller
For anyone out there who's interested Orange eventually caved in and covered my BT bill. In a nutshell they wouldn't admit liability and told me it had been all my fault but they then went on to thank me for drawing attention to certain sections of their Terms and Conditions which they will now be reviewing.
Site AdminJoined: 07 Apr 2006Posts: 784Location: United Kingdom
Hello BuddhaSatan
Well done for pursuing them... I should imagine their T&Cs will be changed almost immediately, while raising customer's attention to this potential problem may take just a little longer.
Let us know how long it takes for them to settle the bill!
For anyone out there who's interested Orange eventually caved in and covered my BT bill. In a nutshell they wouldn't admit liability and told me it had been all my fault but they then went on to thank me for drawing attention to certain sections of their Terms and Conditions which they will now be reviewing.
I have the same problem, i am seek speaking with the zombiez how exactly did u made it i want my money back as well, thanks
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how exactly did u made it i want my money back as well, thanks
