I left Orange at the beginning of September,using a MAC.
Due to a cock up on their behalf I was told that my notice period had commenced on 20th August when the MAC was issued so that the account would be closed on 19th September.I was told this both verbally over the phone and by a folllow up email.
Since I had already paid to 21st September this meant that I did not owe any monies.
Later they tried to tell me that the notice period was only applied wef 10th September when BT told them I had migrated,so that I would owe part of a month. I argued successfully (or so I thought!!) that the original information should stand; after a conversation by the Customer Services agent with "Cancellations" I was told that my account would be closed with immediate effect, with no monies owing.
They did try to Direct Debit my bank account the following month;I again queried with Customer Services who sent me another email confirming that I owed no money and the account was closed.
I have now received a letter from Direct legal and Collections threatening legal action re an outstanding amount of £17.99 - when I contacted them the agent said that this was for the final balance & unless I settled in full it would be entered on my credit record and legal action taken.
I explained the situation to him and read out the emails but all he would say was that I had to get Orange to stop the action.Basically whatever evidence I could produce was irrelevant to him.
Having had many conversations with Orange C/S over the past 2 years I don't hold out any hope of getting sense from them. Any thoughts on the best way to proceed?
_________________ Formerly Orange and sad
Now PlusNet and glad!!
Regards Dave
Thanks for the response Keith; as expected Orange C/S( Mumbai?)were as much use as a chocolate teapot! when I phoned. Agreed that as my account was closed I didn't owe anything so no problems!
Have now approached it from 2 angles - I have a relative in a senior position in another part of Orange who is attempting to get thru to Accounting himself.
And I have emailed the debt collectors with a forwarded copy of the final email from C/S in September.
If this fails I will send a letter by recorded delivery to both the debt collectors and Orange including copies of all the relevant emails.
I have no intention of paying - as I have relatively recently taken early retirement I have the time to take them in!!
_________________ Formerly Orange and sad
Now PlusNet and glad!!
Regards Dave
Have had further conversations with Orange Escalations -they agreed to waive charges "outstanding" and inform debt collection agency. Have also had email reply from DLC putting file "on hold" pending investigation with client(Orange).
Escalations promised a letter confirming conversation and apologising for poor service. What chance I get it?
_________________ Formerly Orange and sad
Now PlusNet and glad!!
Regards Dave
Latest in the fiasco - got a letter from Orange today - thought WHOOPPEE! until I read it. Orange are sorry to tell me that they have had to stop my broadband service and close my account! Unless I send a cheque by 29/12 they will be taking legal action!!!!
How do you get one part of Orange to talk to another - its the ultimate drainpipe managed CONpany.
_________________ Formerly Orange and sad
Now PlusNet and glad!!
Regards Dave
I have had exactly the same experience as you! I cancelled my account at the end of September and went to Talk Talk. I notified them I would be cancelling my account and asked for a MAC code. I then received a letter with my MAC code to say that my account would not be cancelled until my new provider contacted them. I was unhappy with this as it would potentially leave me paying for two providers while the exchange occurred, so I contacted them to inform them of this and they said they would update their records to show a cancellation.
Meanwhile I opened an account with Talk Talk, who do not require a MAC code. I cancelled my direct debit with Orange, as due to their previous inefficiencies with my account I didn't trust them not to take payment and therefore leave me fighting to get my money back.
I received a call two days after my DD was due to come out. When I informed the customer services representative I had cancelled my account he informed me that this was his mistake and that everything was fine and that nothing was owed. I then received a letter from Orange in December saying I owed £5.50! When I phoned up to complain I was told that this was the money owed from between the time I originally cancelled (requesting a MAC code) and when I phoned to correct their incorrect information!!
I know it's only £5.50, but I have had a hell of an experience with Orange - broken promises of free months subscription, disruptions in service for no reason, incompetent customer services representatives and expensive calls to useless flowchart reading tech support!!
When I tried to recitfy the problem I was told nothing could be done, and if I didn't pay the debt would be passed to a debt collection agency and my credit rating would be affected.
Understandibly I am furious! I have threatened to complain to OFCOM (not only about this issue, but about my experience overall) as well as seeking legal advice regarding the incorrect information they will be putting on my credit file! I understand these are empty threats, but I have had enough of being treated like this and all the lost time I have spent dealing with them!!!
I think that last comment echoes the experience of many of the users of this website!
If anyone has any additional advice or reassuring words, it would be appreciated!
I had a similar experience leaving my last ISP to join Orange, they wanted an extra month after what I thought was the months notice. I argued about it and got nowhere. I just paid it in the end.
1: Were you in or out of your minimum contract period? If you were out you have to give them 30 days notice (covered in your T&C's)
2: If you left using a MAC and there is a dispute about billing then DO NOT speak to customer services or tech support. I suggest you ring 0844 873 8586 and follow the options for moving house. This team can help resolve migration billing disputes and is all based in the UK. If they can't then request to speak to cancellations team (also know as customer care).
3: Customer care have to resolve your issue and if the CSR cannot then they have to pass you to a team leader. For such a pitiful amount they should write it off, but under the circumstances that they do not, request to speak with the escalations team. They are somewhat more understanding and like the escalations teams of BT, o2 (now Sky) etc. are not bound by certain guidelines and rarely lack common sense.
4: Just to add one little pointer, Orange would not take you to court for £17.99, it costs them £500 just to file a case which means the hiring of a lawyer outweighs the victory of the case for such a meaningless amount.
Follow the steps i suggest, certain phrases and not losing your temper will probably have your account cleared of any debt. Shout and scream though and you may find the debt gets passed on, in which case Orange will be correct and you will owe the money and a debt collector doesn't follow such potential compassion with their CSR's.
I am out of my contract period and as far as I'm concerned I gave them the 30 days notice, but this is what they are disputing. They make cancellation so complicated! Despite my calling them and getting verbal agreement of my cancellation date and being told my account was clear, they just go back on this! This is similar to when they offered me a free months subscription (which is still outstanding).
I have completely run out of energy to persue this. Do you think a debt collection agency will bother about £5.50 anyway?
If anything I will make a complaint to OFCOM and ISPA about their less than transparent cancellation policy (regarding the use of MAC's verses verbal notification of cancellation - why can't they accept both at the same time!), and poor note keeping regarding verbal agreements. They have refused to put stuff in writing for me also, so what can you do - start recording calls and give them the same recorded message notifying them of this before they speak to you! How can a company run like that!!
Rang Orange in August 2008, gave MAC code and said I was terminating the contract (and gave reasons why), and made sure I'd cancelled the DD (to avoid paying twice).
Since then, many exchanges of emails in Sep and Oct with Orange saying I hadn't given them 30 days' notice, followed by a letter 2 weeks ago threatening legal action for the £14.99 they say I owe. I replied in writing on 12th Jan quoting the emails and pointing out that I'd been told on the phone by Orange that the matter was settled.
No reply from Orange to my letter, except today I received a letter from DLC saying the account has been referred to them (is that the same as their buying the debt?) and to pay immediately or legal action bla-bla.
As previous posters have said, I'll be jiggered if I'm going to pay, but don't want to have a dodgy credit rating against me.
If you have an email from Orange agreeing that your account is closed and you don't owe anything, forward it to the email address of dlc (debt.post@dlcollect.co.uk) with a covering note asking them to refer back to their clients.Also phone Orange and ask to be put on to Escalations; I HOPE that route has finally sorted my issue out (no communications from anyone for 6 weeks now!!)
_________________ Formerly Orange and sad
Now PlusNet and glad!!
Regards Dave
Thanks, Brewerdave, unfortunately the emails say the following:
We understand your concern and apologize for the inconvenience caused.
As mentioned earlier that your account is still active and the 30 days
notice was applied on ** September 2008 so your account will close on
** October 2008 and we as a Web Support Team do not have the access to the required tools to check this information for you, and therefore
request you to contact our Customer Support Team on the number mentioned below to assist you.
I've now re-read the previous posts and have come to understand that Orange deliberately set things up so that they always get an extra month's fees: it's not possible in their world to get a MAC and give notice, either/or, not both!
Requesting a MAC code, which expires after 30 days, does not mean you will use it to move to another provider, a lot of people call up for a MAC code so they can use it as leverage to gain a better deal with their existing provider. If Orange closed your account and you had not used the MAC code you would lose connection and then have to wait for your line to be provisioned with a new provider, which generally takes up to 10 working days from point of registration. Also if Orange closed your account immediately without the MAC code being accepted by the new supplier you would have to wait approx 10 working days for the Orange marker to be removed from the line before a new provider could commence the work of switching you across to their broadband. Furthermore, if Orange closed the account whilst you were still in the process of migrating this would have the effect of ceasing the line and stopping the migration as it would be a become a dead line and you would have to reregister again from scratch with the new provider once BT had removed the Orange marker.
Not everybody that requests a MAC code uses it, and not every ISP (for example TalkTalk who use their own telephony system, require the MAC code to unbundle the phone line, and switch the customer over). If Orange closed the account immediately each time a MAC was requested, a lot of users would lose connection immediately, and have to wait for the new provider to take over the line, plus there are sometimes problems with the line which prevents a switchover occuring within the normal time frames which would again leave the customer without a working broadband connection. There is no guarantee that the switchover will be hassle free, which is why Orange and other providers wait for BT to confirm the line has been succesfully switched to the new provider before they place the cancellation notice on the acoount.
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