Here is a copy of an email I have just sent to Orange - it will be the last one I will send to them. Background - they haven't closed my account after migration. I emailed them to ask why, they said Sky broadband haven't informed them. I told them that the MAC was applied so effectively Sky has told them, they then tried to get out of it by telling me they have limited access to the accounts and gave me an 0870 number to their Indian call centre....
Please escalate this email to your complaints department.
Dear sir/madam
I migrated from Orange Broadband to Sky Broadband on the **th December 2007 and my Orange account is still showing that it is active.
This is the third email I have sent. It should have been resolved without any correspondence at all.
Firstly, here are two bits of information (in italics below) I have received from Sky Broadband to support my issue, quoted directly from their emails;
“I have checked our records and can confirm that your Sky Broadband account was activated on ** December 2007. The order was placed with BT and we used the MAC Code ***********/***** which was supplied by you, BT has confirmed that this was used in our order.”
“After investigating this issue, I can advise that by using the MAC code supplied by your previous ISP, they were informed that we had taken possession of this phone line. This is in accordance with current OFCOM regulations. I can advise that we are unable to contact your previous ISP to cancel in any other form beyond using a MAC code, as this is in breech of the Data Protection act.”
I should not have to contact you to close my Orange broadband account. You have said (in a previous email) Sky have to inform you I have migrated to them, and then you will close my account. By Sky applying my MAC code ***********/***** on the **th of December 2007, they were, in accordance with OFCOM regulations, effectively informing you I wish to close my account with you, by taking over the Broadband service on my phone line. Because of the DATA PROTECTION ACT, they are unable to inform you any other way, as they will be disclosing my information to you. It is not correct that I should have to waste my time and money to tell you to do something you should be doing anyway. I am not prepared to contact a national rate telephone number to discuss this matter just because your records are wrong or your procedures are incorrect. If this email is insufficient to finalize this (what should be) simple matter, I want you to provide me with an address to write to.
I will be canceling any further direct debits, and if I receive any demands for payments or if any missed payments or defaults are recorded and forwarded on to any credit reference agencies, I will be contacting the relevant bodies and consumer groups for further advice. I have paid up to *** February 2008, which covers the notice period, and the part month payment that the contract states you are entitled to, to cover ‘administrative’ costs, and will be paying no more.
(I then provided them with my name, email, address, phone number, orange phone number, orange account number, date my contract started and ended, and date I am billed - so they can't say there isn't enough information for security purposes!)
I am sure this is enough information for you to go on. If you haven’t got access to the correct systems, as stated in your previous email, then you can contact the department that have.
I also understand that BT should have a record of my MAC code being applied on the **th December 2007 and that you should have access to that information, thus reconfirming the migration of my service.
I enjoyed many years of Orange Broadband (and its predecessors) and I am upset about the hassle this is now causing. I have read the forums at orangeproblems.co.uk, and it seems to be an ongoing problem with your company, and it definitely isn’t as simple to migrate as you make it out to be in your help item, article number KB732.
I do hope this is resolved soon
I am now waiting to see what happens. I refuse to phone them! - I work in a call centre myself, so I spend enough of my life on the phone!
AFAIK there was a similar sort of problem previously where migrating to some LLU services didn't cause BT to show the line as having migrated when it had. Technically it's BT who inform Orange and there's no real direct contact between ISP's, it's not really the losing ISP's business who you're going to unless you choose to tell them. If they had hard data they could do some serious marketing trying to tailor offers against them.
To be honest that sort of issue is something that can't really be done over email. On the phone the normal process would be to check if the tag on the line is Orange's as it won't be that should be confirmation enough the migration has completed and the account can be cancelled there and then.
Whoever is to blame, the problem still keeps cropping up, and the fact is, something should be done about it. We are told how easy it is to migrate, and there is no mention of these problems. It could be possible for someone, who doesn't check their bank statements regularly, to be billed indefinately for a service they assumed would be cancelled. As noted in my email I sent, BT has confirmed with Sky that the MAC I supplied was used in the order. So are you suggesting it is BT at fault for not informing Orange? Even still, there is no way it would be impossible for Orange cancel my account without me phoning them. They were able to provide me with a MAC code, they are able to change my bank account details, and change my package without phoning them, so cancelling an account should be a simple job. The only reason they want you to phone them is so they can put you through to their retentions department to try to keep you. As I said, I don't wish to deal with this over the telephone, and I will be standing by my laurels on this occasion.
Joined: 13 Aug 2006Posts: 1689Location: Marylebone Central London
It does seem that since now by law they have to hand over a MAC within 5 days they can't stall giving you one like they used to, now they have thought of other ways to try and prevent or make it awkward for customers to migrate away so i agree with nhyder you need to report them to Ofcom and the ISPA.
_________________ ex Freeserve/Wanadoo/Orange Blog
[quote="stevelondon"]It does seem that since now by law they have to hand over a MAC within 5 days/quote]
Unless they can give a reasonable and acceptable explanation as to why they can't. This is the only get-out allowed under General Condition 22.
So for example if they have a system failure or there is work currently being carried out on that particular line which prevents migration then they must explain precisely.
I just recieved the following reply - which, apart from giving me an address to write to, just repeats two previous emails and tells me nothing.
Hello Martin,
Thank you for your email.
We understand the situation you are in. We regret the inconvenience.
As per the records, your account is still active with Orange.
Your broadband closure is subject to 30 days notice, this will be
applied to your account once the MAC is used.
Your new provider has to confirm with us once the MAC is used so that we can apply the notice period.
However, as per the records, your new provider has not yet communicated
about the same.
We as a web support team have limited access to our systems to assist
you further and therefore request you to please contact our customer
support team on 0870 010 2462 with options 1 and 4 ( calls are charged
at national rate, lines open between 8am and 10pm, 7 days ).
We advise you to write to us on the address mentioned below:
Orange Customer Care
Orange UK Plc
PO Box 486
Rotherham
S63 5ZX
If you have any further queries then please do not hesitate to get in
contact with us again.
Kind Regards,
Shveta
I replied with the following email
Dear sir/madam
As mentioned before, Sky broadband claim that they are effectively informing you that I am changing providers by applying my MAC code, in accordance with OFCOM regulations. Do you not operate in accordance with OFCOM, or is Sky giving me false information? Sky claim there is no other way they can inform you because of DPA rules. All you have done in this email is repeat what you said in the previous email. If my account isn't showing closed in 7 days (with the 30 day notice applying from the 18th of December 2007), I will write to your customer care team and I will register my complaint with OFCOM.
Thank you
Martin
I also informed Sky that Orange are disputing their stand on the matter, whereby Sky claim using the MAC is effectively telling Orange i have migrated so they should close my account. I have also told Sky that i will be informing OFCOM - methinks there is part of General Condition 22 in the OFCOM regulations has not been met by Orange, Sky or both
To my knowledge the "MAC used" notification is a BT automated system which fires through to Orange.
I believe they then must access the system to identify any migrations.
Either Orange failed or have technically been unable to do this or they have missed your individual migration notification or the BT system has blipped and not recorded the migration.
_________________ An ex-Orange guinea pig
"The first third of our lives is ruined by our parents, the second third by 0range then along comes 02 and you die happy."
I had the same problem. You are wasting your time emailing them. I ended up phoning them i was passed from pillar to post but after 45 mins on the phone they agreed I had migrated( they phoned BT I think while i was waiting) anyhow the account was closed there and then .i am affraid you are going to have to bite the bullet on this one and phone them up yourself to sort it
I've been with Freeserve then Wanadoo (broadband) and now Orange without changing my package. Recently I've been receiving phone calls from Orange trying to persuade me to change, presumably to lock me into a new contract. The latest ploy was to state that that my contract was coming to an end and I needed a new one. I said this was rubbish and I had no intention of changing to any new package (my note - as I'm considering escaping!). At this point they terminated the call abruptly.
So 'older' (in my case quite literally!) customers be warned.
Recently I've been receiving phone calls from Orange trying to persuade me to change, presumably to lock me into a new contract. The latest ploy was to state that that my contract was coming to an end and I needed a new one.
Yet another example (mis-selling) which should be reported to OFCOM.
Either Orange failed or have technically been unable to do this or they have missed your individual migration notification or the BT system has blipped and not recorded the migration.
Yeah it has happened before, specifically migrating to LLU connections, which Sky do use.
Anyway the general process if you want to call and get it sort is:
Call and say you've migrated but your account is still open. Request they confirm through Specialist Provisions that the line is no longer oranges. Once that's confirmed it should get easier to get the account closed.
i phoned them, after giving up with the email - this was monday afternoon - it is now friday evening and my account is still open. They confirmed my migration date with BT and said my account would be closed immediately and i would get a part refund on my last bill - this is getting very frustrating.
I think Orange are using a loophole in the regulations to keep accounts open after migration has taken place. The regulator states that accounts will be terminated after the loosing provider has been told that migration has taken place (plus any notice period). The problem is that no one is responsible for telling Orange that you have migrated. BTW make information about active migrations and migrations completed in the last 30 days available to Orange but Orange have to look at it and act on it. I believe that Orange use this to keep accounts open in order to take a few extra months subscription from departing customers. When I migrated from Orange I had to get my new provider to actually write a letter to Orange stating that I had migrated before Orange finally agreed to close the account.
i spoke to another advisor today, after recieving a standard email saying i need to send them my payment details or i will be charged 5 for late payment (i have cancelled m direct debit). I told her i had sent several emails and phoned 8 days ago and was told my account would be closed. She did the same as the last person i spoke to by puting me on hold for 5 minutes, and came back and said my account would be closed within 48 hours and i will get a refund of some sorts. I also picked up that she had access to the emails i sent - funny how this is and they can't sort out the problems by email. I don't think there was any record of the last time i phoned. I took her full name this time. I am still not confident at all that the matter will be solved. It might me a matter that OFCOM should be aware of.
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