I've had a history with Orange starting a few months ago..... the sort of problems we see at this site all the time, under performing speed, unobtainable mail servers, broken DNS, etc.....
Yesterday we had an unsolicited sales call, someone saying they were from Orange and they would reduce the cost of our broadband. The call was taken by my wife, but the package is in my name.
My wife is technically literate, and we have about twenty years work for Mitsubishi Electric PC Division/Apricot Computers clocked up between us, myself in tech support. The discussion involved the guy offering to reduce the cost of our BB and my wife asked how much would be saved (a quid a month), whether this would involve a new 12 month contract (she was told it wouldn't), and whether this was conditional on acceptance of the brain damaged Livebox product (he decided to send it anyway).
We then received an email indicating we were now on a new contract..... A swift call to 0870 010 2462 and forceful but polite restating of our intention to leave, and that we had not agreed to a new contract (we were lied to), resulted in anotation of our account stating that we had not in fact taken a further 12 months contract and Three months free access resulted.
A couple of things spring to mind and perhaps Elhana would like to comment further here......
This is at best miselling, and at worse misrepresentation by sales staff.
Orange sales staff are on a bonus and may in fact be working for a third party.
Either way as soon as my wifes university exams are done, we're off.
One last question for Elhana, just when are Orange going to fix the fslife.co.uk DNS records so that we can access mail servers once more and would it not have made sense to publicise migration of fslife/freeserve accounts to the orangehome pop and smtp servers?
Stop Press:
Incidentally, a call to tech support (India) tells me that the email problems that have existed for the last two to Three weeks, will be fixed in the next 18 to 24 hours. Which is the same as the staus during the last two to Three weeks. It will get escalated if it's not fixed in the next 18 to 24 hours..... oh not escalated during the last two to Three weeks then ?
Andy, having run many a sales team / call centre and other targeted sales operations in the past, you'll find that it's quite common for the sales guys to 'omit' the bits of information they feel may restrict their chances of getting a sale.
Personally, i always found that if you're straight with people you get the results anyway.
So with regard to misselling, it's more than likely. After all, these guys will have a sales manager (read been in the job 3 months) with little real sales experience who only knows what they've learnt in the Orange sales department. They'll be walking up and down and around the sales desks all day reminding people of their sales targets and asking what they have acheived - this is typicall of a tele sales operation and only results in the sales guys missing out vital bits of info in order to get their sales up.
A couple of things spring to mind and perhaps Elhana would like to comment further here......
This is at best miselling, and at worse misrepresentation by sales staff.
Orange sales staff are on a bonus and may in fact be working for a third party.
AFAIK yes they're a 3rd party company that do that stuff and they probably will get bonuses depending on their sales. Similar to the Care Team who do cancellations, they have targets and get bonuses for higher "save" rates.
Quote:
One last question for Elhana, just when are Orange going to fix the fslife.co.uk DNS records so that we can access mail servers once more and would it not have made sense to publicise migration of fslife/freeserve accounts to the orangehome pop and smtp servers?
Stop Press:
Incidentally, a call to tech support (India) tells me that the email problems that have existed for the last two to Three weeks, will be fixed in the next 18 to 24 hours. Which is the same as the staus during the last two to Three weeks. It will get escalated if it's not fixed in the next 18 to 24 hours..... oh not escalated during the last two to Three weeks then ?
As Admin has posted elsewhere the fslife one seems sorted and it's a matter of waiting for the DNS servers to update.
It may be that the outage is related to the previous problem of sending email as the internal status no longer references problems "popping" email anymore. We'll probably know more after the weekend once all the DNS gets sorted out.
Andy, having run many a sales team / call centre and other targeted sales operations in the past, you'll find that it's quite common for the sales guys to 'omit' the bits of information they feel may restrict their chances of getting a sale.
Personally, i always found that if you're straight with people you get the results anyway.
So with regard to misselling, it's more than likely. After all, these guys will have a sales manager (read been in the job 3 months) with little real sales experience who only knows what they've learnt in the Orange sales department. They'll be walking up and down and around the sales desks all day reminding people of their sales targets and asking what they have acheived - this is typicall of a tele sales operation and only results in the sales guys missing out vital bits of info in order to get their sales up.
Hardly ethical, and when done against the expressed, and painfully clear instruction of the customer, hardly legal either. Time for a tighter rein to be employed I suggest. I'm not even going to go into what I think about what was an 8Mb service and has been comfortably under 2Mb for some months, as such comments could be seen as too rude for a family forum.
Andy
Last edited by raisen1964 on Mon May 14, 2007 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
A couple of things spring to mind and perhaps Elhana would like to comment further here......
This is at best miselling, and at worse misrepresentation by sales staff.
Orange sales staff are on a bonus and may in fact be working for a third party.
AFAIK yes they're a 3rd party company that do that stuff and they probably will get bonuses depending on their sales. Similar to the Care Team who do cancellations, they have targets and get bonuses for higher "save" rates.
Quote:
One last question for Elhana, just when are Orange going to fix the fslife.co.uk DNS records so that we can access mail servers once more and would it not have made sense to publicise migration of fslife/freeserve accounts to the orangehome pop and smtp servers?
Stop Press:
Incidentally, a call to tech support (India) tells me that the email problems that have existed for the last two to Three weeks, will be fixed in the next 18 to 24 hours. Which is the same as the staus during the last two to Three weeks. It will get escalated if it's not fixed in the next 18 to 24 hours..... oh not escalated during the last two to Three weeks then ?
As Admin has posted elsewhere the fslife one seems sorted and it's a matter of waiting for the DNS servers to update.
It may be that the outage is related to the previous problem of sending email as the internal status no longer references problems "popping" email anymore. We'll probably know more after the weekend once all the DNS gets sorted out.
Thanks for the reply Elhana, and thanks for not being as short with me as I perhaps deserved. I have in the past had to support PCWorld, Mastercare and Freeserve techs whilst working for Mitsubishi, and at times the experience was like pushing water up hill. I did however meet many such techs that displayed a similar high standard of professionalism to your own.
Thanks for keeping me up to date and playing with a straight bat.
Migrated to Waitrose on the basis of who the underlying service provider is (it isn't waitrose), and the whole thing worked like a charm. Service from Wanadoo terminated as of this morning, Waitrose as of now. So long and thanks for all the fish Orange. Speed has almost doubled.
Who is the underlying provider for Waitrose? I'm currently transferring to them. I chose them because (among other things, like the actual package) they have such a solid reputation they daren't mess it up by running a rubbish ISP. (They'd be better off NOT running an ISP if they don't trust themselves, if you see what I mean? Orange, take note! I believe you used to have a good reputation for mobile phones? Not now you ain't! Your future is very, very dull...)
I'm sure I read somewhere it's Madasafish. Is that correct?
_________________ No longer an Orange customer. The future is bright once more :-)
It is indeed Brightview, and the service started on Monday of this week. I have had precisely zero problems. It does precisely "what it says on the tin". Speed is very close ot the theoretical maximum that my line will support according to the tests that I have run. In short it has pleased me immensely. In addition, if you ever do need to contact tech support, it costs nothing, it's an 0800 number. Recommended.
Final development is that despite my return of the Livebox, that Orange were told they should not, ever dream of sending me, I get a nasty gram today telling me they intend to bill me a hundred quid for their brain damaged piece of junk, that I never ordered.....
FFS.......
What a bunch of amateurs. Having moved my ISP I am now moving my mobile phone. I want nothing more to do with this bunch of [censored] clowns.
Email them and tell them you will do them for harassment bloody idiots. The live oops crapbox ain't worth £5 let alone £100
In a further development, I got another nastygram today, asking for proof that I sent the accursed Livebox. I refuse to write this time and again wasted considerable time on hold waiting for none existant supervisors. I explained that I had submitted a proof of delivery...... Jesus, just how thick are the people that Orange recruit right now. They have assured me that my account has again been annotated, and my name removed from their third party recovery team. Nice...... I took the opportunity to inform them that they were dealing with a stressed out disabled bloke (true), and that at this point all further discussion would be cc'd to OFCOM and Watchdog, I want no part of any service from their company, and should I receive one further nastygram, I'll be taking legal advice.
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