I'm new to the forum and like so many others, sorry, but I want to blow my top.
On 05/04 I got a Cold call from Orange. Would I like to upgrade to 8Mb, Unlimited downloads and Free Phone calls to 100 countries via a Livebox? Cost? £3.00 less than I am currently paying for 2Mb and 1 Gb download.
"Yes please".
6 days later I started getting min. 4Mb. The LB arrived a couple of days later, was setup manually by a "teckie" friend, (the Setup CD still goes to Firewall Help whatever you try to do), and the next day download speed was down to a max 164Kbps, even at 5am.
The Activation and Free Phone # email arrived on 13/04 and I did everything according to the manual and help pages. The Phone Red Light is constant, Calls in, Calls out but I couldn't get the 5 beep Livebox dialling tone so I wouldn't be getting free calls.
The help pages were useless so I turned to the Internet and found your site. Oh, how I wish I had found OrangeProblems before upgrading.
Sadly it doesn't appear that anyone else has written in about how to fix the Dial tone problem but I did find DSLZoneUK and, from the advice on the site, I went through all their checks, including my phone wiring.
All OK. so I emailed Orange, told them the problem and all the checks I had made. What did they send me? The link to the help page I had told them I had already read and was of no help at all.
Phoned Tech Support and spoke to a well versed overseas assistant, who, after running through the script, stopped listening and put me on hold "for a minute". 6 mins later, and based on what I had learned from this site, (thank you again), I cut the call and phoned customer services.
A very pleasent lady told me that the poor download rates "were due to the number of people on the BT line in your area".
"I don't have a BT line".
"No, but the Livebox service is handled by BT on our behalf"
"But I've checked on DSL and at 10:20am today Orange had the worst 8Mb download speed of all the ISP's at less than 0.5Mb and DSL are not on my local exchange, which is just 110 meteres from my house"
"Yes but,"
"Sorry but what is the point of my having 8Mb if I can only use it in the middle of the night, and a LB if I can't make Free calls?"
"Well I can't do anything, you would have to ask Tech Sup. to do something"
"No thank you, you can have the LB back and I'll go back to my old 2Mb service"
"OK, you will have 2Mb, 2Gb download and it will be £14.99pm". That's £8.00 less than I was paying before and an extra 1Gb of downloads.
I've been with Freeserve since the early days and I've never exprienced anything like this before. My phone line is with TalkTalk but friends who've taken up their free Broadband offer never stop complaining about poor speeds or no service at all. What a mess.
The Phone Red Light is constant, Calls in, Calls out but I couldn't get the 5 beep Livebox dialling tone so I wouldn't be getting free calls.
To my recollection, a phone plugged into the livebox only routes to your BT line if the livebox is switched off. The fact that you can phone the number that Orange have issued you with would seem to indicate that your talk service is working.
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I went through all their checks, including my phone wiring. A very pleasent lady told me that the poor download rates "were due to the number of people on the BT line in your area".
"I don't have a BT line".
You must have some form of line to get ADSL and to my mind this will be a BT line unless you have contracted to go to another telephone provider for you normal calls. Either way, you will have a line back to the local BT exchange.
Its not clear from your post whether you are on BTs IP Stream or Oranges own LLU service. Could be either, depends whether Orange have got around to fitting their own LLU equipment in your exchange. If they have you are probably on LLU. If not then you will be on IP Stream Max.
You really need to post your line stats. These will give a clearer picture of what service you are on and also indicate the state of your connection and line. To post these open Internet Explorer and type in address bar 192.168.1.1/testinfo.html Keep returning until you get a list of test results. Copy and post back here second half of results from where they start ADSL_VERSION
I had similar to you - Orange Contacted me saying they have done tests on my line and its capable of 8megs would I like to join for same price you paying for your current 512k - I said yes please.
No speed increase came... infact it became slower!
Then Orange told me "oh we could never put you on 8 meg as the max your line can take is 512k... someone should have told you when you joined up. If you want to leave you have to pay 11month off your contract and there is nothing else you can do as we are suplying you a service"
So I got my MAC code and currently joining Be* ... Cancilled my directdebit with Orange.
Orange are in breach of contract and sold me a package under false marketing.
Sure they have put you another deal but thru stelth they have entered you into another contact.
Get your MAC code and Cancil your DD Fast! You may be in luck as the you started the £15 p/m deal with has 30 days cool off time so you should cancil and join someone else!
The Phone Red Light is constant, Calls in, Calls out but I couldn't get the 5 beep Livebox dialling tone so I wouldn't be getting free calls.
To my recollection, a phone plugged into the livebox only routes to your BT line if the livebox is switched off. The fact that you can phone the number that Orange have issued you with would seem to indicate that your talk service is working.
Thanks for the reply, your name is very familiar from all the searching I've been doing.
Yes, my LB is on, the phone light is constant, the line is active, everything is working just fine except that when I pick up the phone to make a call I don't get the 5 beeps indicating I'm routed via Orange. According to "Orange Help pages" ha ha, the missing 3 to 5 beep dialing tone means I'm routed via BT. I'm very interested in phoning my cousin in Oz. Obviously I don't want to take a chance and then get my bill from Talk Talk at the end of the month and find I've been charged £40 or whatever.
Been to 192.168.1.1 and got the info but from where to where should I copy and paste as my username and WEP key are there also. I've attached what I think is safe and should be grateful if you could advise if you need more.
ADSL firmware version : A2pBT009c1.d17d
Connection mode : G.DMT
Type : Fast
Noise margin (dB) : 5.9
Attenuation (dB) : 61.0
Attainable download rate (kbps) : 1920
ADSL status : Connected [0]
Downstream Upstream
Rate (kbps) 1888 416
Since posting I've just gone back to the 192 site and read that the info was supplied by the LB, not from the internet. Have pasted the address you gave me and Google came up with nothing. Does the "Attainable download rate" of 1920kbps mean the LB isn't capable of 8Mg?
Cheers
David
Last edited by tomtom on Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
I had similar to you - Orange Contacted me saying they have done tests on my line and its capable of 8megs would I like to join for same price you paying for your current 512k - I said yes please.
No speed increase came... infact it became slower!!
Thanks Veggiemusisician, my exchange is capable of 8mb ASDL and 2Mb SDSL according to DSL ZoneUK tests so I dont think thats where the problem is. It is now 9:20 pm and you will see in my reply to TVman that the speed is up but still don't think I'm on the Orange phone line generated via the LB.
As to changing ISP I have also read of all the hassle with MACs, delays in setting up, telling the world of my new email address etc. I do admire the ones in the forum who spend months of wrangling with Tech Sup. and Customer Sevices but at my age I can't be bothered. Thanks for the thought anyway.
Yes, my LB is on, the phone light is constant, the line is active, everything is working just fine except that when I pick up the phone to make a call I don't get the 5 beeps indicating I'm routed via Orange. According to "Orange Help pages" ha ha, the missing 3 to 5 beep dialing tone means I'm routed via BT. I'm very interested in phoning my cousin in Oz. Obviously I don't want to take a chance and then get my bill from Talk Talk at the end of the month and find I've been charged £40 or whatever.
Ok a couple of options for this then, call your landline number and then do a 1471 on it, providing Talk Talk have that service and see what the number that last called is. If it's the talk number then it's working fine although without the beeps, though it's more an altered dialtone for about the first second.
Other option is to call someone on the talk service and see if your normal landline when picked up gives a dialtone at the same time, if it does then the talk service must be working in order to give you two effective lines.
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I've attached what I think is safe and should be grateful if you could advise if you need more.
Type : Fast
Noise margin (dB) : 5.9
Attenuation (dB) : 61.0
Attainable download rate (kbps) : 1920
Downstream Upstream
Rate (kbps) 1888 416
Since posting I've just gone back to the 192 site and read that the info was supplied by the LB, not from the internet. Have pasted the address you gave me and Google came up with nothing. Does the "Attainable download rate" of 1920kbps mean the LB isn't capable of 8Mg?
Those details are just what we need.
The attainable isn't what the livebox is capable of, simply the potential maximum speed it could run at with the line stats shown at the time. Treat it as a guide only.
Ok, firstly you're on a long phone line due to the attenuation being pretty high.
Next you're on an ADSL Max connection as the upload rate is above 288kbps.
Your dates indicate your probably on about day 6 of the first 10 days of the connection. Speed wise nothing can be done until those 10 days are up and things may naturally sort themselves out once it is.
Your download rate gives, at best, a 1.5meg profile for the connection on those stats, this can drop due to bad connections etc, which is probably why you're currently got really low speeds. Providing that downstream rate is stable and stays above 1728kbps for 3 days the speed should go up automatically.
Running a test on http://speedtester.BT.com/ can show you what your profile currently is for the connection.
If you did have 4 meg actually running on the connection a few days ago then it suggests something is majorly wrong as currently I'd say there's no way that connection appears to be capable of 4 meg.
Best course of action is first try the old speedtouch modem if possible and get it's line stats, there's a link in the useful links thread in the 8 meg forum.
If that offers similar details to the livebox then wait out about another 5 days and see if the details change much over the time. At that point Orange should be able to look into the issue if it really is a problem and you're below the fault threshold rate set for the line.
Getting a MAC code is no problem at all... By law Orange cant refuse you one even if you have not payed off the remaning contact! If they dont suply you with a MAC code in 5 days Ofcom can fine them 10% of their turnover.
Do what someone off Orange "care" team told me to do off the record... "here's you MAC code - I personly agree that you are in the right and we have suplied you with a bad service... go and cancel your DirectDebits with us and join somewhere else!
Thank you Elhana. Your reply posted at 11:20pm! What do you do the rest of the day? (No need to answer that as I think I read it on the forum). I'm impressed.
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Ok, firstly you're on a long phone line due to the attenuation being pretty high.
As I'm 110mt from the exchange, as the crow flies, I guess you may be refering to the internal wiring and yes, the master is downstairs with an extension to the the office, (box room), upstairs. Fiters fitted. Line and wiring checked OK.
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Running a test on http://speedtester.BT.com/ can show you what your profile currently is for the connection.
Ran the test at app. 715am, thank you.
IP profile for your line is - 1500 kbps
DSL connection rate: 416 kbps(UP-STREAM) 1856 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1248 kbps
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If you did have 4 meg actually running on the connection a few days ago then it suggests something is majorly wrong as currently I'd say there's no way that connection appears to be capable of 4 meg.
I think that was with my Netgear Wireless Router , after the line was upgraded to 8Mb but before the LB arrived. Was so amazed by the speed I ran a check using 123myip, the first I found on Google, rather than pinching myself. Have now found DSL thanks to your recommendation.
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Best course of action is first try the old speedtouch modem if possible and get it's line stats, there's a link in the useful links thread in the 8 meg forum.
There lies the rub.
I've still got the old speedtouch modem but as I've downgraded to the basic 2Mb Orange package and I think they've already de-activated the Free Phone option, (the Red Phone light on the LB has gone off), there seems to be little point in carrying on. (It's a pity they cannot work so fast in fixing my problems). Once everything has settled down I shall ask for an upgrade on the Basic to 4Mb.
As I said previously, I have nothing but admiration for the likes of debbiek61 on tuesday 17/04, (and for anyone out there who hasn't read it, I recommend you do), but my single experience of Tech and CS was enough. There is no way I'm spending my money on help lines to here and there just to fix their problems. They simply hang up. We can't because we are hoping for a solution and the meter keeps on clocking up the pennies. Nice one.
I didn't know about this forum when I received my LB and I wish I had as I would then have known about the CD bug.
This is a perfect illustration of the Orange attitude to customer satisfaction in that the set up CD, sent to me in April 2007 still has the same bug as reported on this forum in May 2006. Being the cynic I am, I see this as a money spinner. "Oh dear, I can't load the software. What do I do now, I'd better phone Tech Sup."
"That's OK sir, we can do it for you manually, Is your computer on? Fine, I shall guide you through the set up"?
That's what happened to me but I declined as I had a mate who could also do the same; for a bottle of wine.
Whatever happened to "Plug and Play"?
So, for now, problem solved as far as I'm concerned. My thanks to tvman, Veggiemusician, and Elhana for the advice. Your efforts were not wasted. I'm sure your reponses to my problems will be of help to others, just as other postings have been to me. Keep up the good work.
Thank you Elhana. Your reply posted at 11:20pm! What do you do the rest of the day? (No need to answer that as I think I read it on the forum). I'm impressed.
Well I am a little random at times, so I usually end up dropping by here at some odd times of the day.
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As I'm 110mt from the exchange, as the crow flies, I guess you may be refering to the internal wiring and yes, the master is downstairs with an extension to the the office, (box room), upstairs. Fiters fitted. Line and wiring checked OK.
I was more referring to the actual phone line itself before your property but internal wiring can play a huge part too. ADSL Max can be a lot more picky with setup and sometimes can take a bit of fiddling to get it running just right.
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Ran the test at app. 715am, thank you.
IP profile for your line is - 1500 kbps
DSL connection rate: 416 kbps(UP-STREAM) 1856 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1248 kbps
For your stats that test looks fine.
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I think that was with my Netgear Wireless Router , after the line was upgraded to 8Mb but before the LB arrived. Was so amazed by the speed I ran a check using 123myip, the first I found on Google, rather than pinching myself. Have now found DSL thanks to your recommendation.
Could have been a problem with the livebox causing it to run slower but it can be hard to tell, some speed tests can give very wild results.
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I've still got the old speedtouch modem but as I've downgraded to the basic 2Mb Orange package and I think they've already de-activated the Free Phone option, (the Red Phone light on the LB has gone off), there seems to be little point in carrying on. (It's a pity they cannot work so fast in fixing my problems). Once everything has settled down I shall ask for an upgrade on the Basic to 4Mb.
Yeah the phone has probably already gone, that's almost immediately gone in a package change because of how it's setup, though it would take a short time to filter through the rest of the system.
As for the speed, I believe they don't do ADSL Max limited to 2 meg so you'll be regraded to IPStream (non-Max), that'll take a few days at least.
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Whatever happened to "Plug and Play"?
Well it's down to what ADSL Max "is". It attempts to push the best speed it can down your line. When you ride close to the limit it's easier for minor things to cause problems.
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