i wanted to ask for advice for my upgrade to 2mb from the Orange dial-up service,
i upgraded about 3 weeks ago, the modem got to my house 2 weeks ago, my connection wasnt yet active but the Orange technical people told me it would be on the 14 of march, well that didnt happen, i called them back but then said they would raise the situation to a higher authority meaning BT and my connection should be active by the end of last week well that didnt happen and on monday i called Orange again then they said my local exchange is having problems and no one in my area can sign up to broadband, so i will have to call back next monday for an update, after this i did some research on the internet then i found out that my local exchange cant do LLU meaning i cant get Orange broadband, so i called the Orange Uk line and told them i cant get llu in my area, the person got snoty with me and said i should call them back on monday as they said and that my area can get Orange broadband
i wanted to know if you guys had any advice on what i should do, i wanted to cancell Orange broadband and send them back their modem and go for another ISP but i wasnt sure if they had marked my line yet, and if they did what should i do, i know this situation with Orange will keep draggin on and on
You can't really rely on any current info on if LLU is available there, except usually for people reporting actually being on LLU. If it's not available then the connection is ordered through BT Wholesale. Sometimes things get delayed, certain equipment needing to be removed from the line, maintenence work needing to be done, capacity issues at the exchange, etc.
Call Orange and ask if you're being provisioned on LLU or IPStream (BT) and ask if the target date has been reached. If it has and there is no activation date then ask them to check with the Specialist Provisioning Team to find out what's going on. They should be able to give more info and speak to BT directly to find out what's happening if needed.
i called Orange yesterday as they had asked, they told me i have to wait again till thursday to ask for when my connection will be active, and they told me they placed me on IP-stream, but i am skeptical about Orange i think i shoild have gone for BT, orange just take a p**s, and i am sure once the connection is active something else is going to go wrong
You appear to be at the mercy of Orange's unsupportive support department and as usual they are giving you the run around. Whether you were going on LLU or IPStream there is no real excuse for your delay other than Oranges inability to process your order.
I would phone them, let them know that they have failed to meet their commitments in providing you with your service, and tell them that because of this you are cancelling without penalty as the blame clearly lies with them. If they say you have an outstanding contract to fulfill then stand your ground and refuse. Inspite of what they may say about the contract you have between Orange and yourself, they appear to have failed in meeting legal requirements of current contract legislation. I can't see, with a little bit of assertive persuasion why you can not cancel without penalty and move to an ISP that better suits your needs.
You appear to be at the mercy of Orange's unsupportive support department and as usual they are giving you the run around. Whether you were going on LLU or IPStream there is no real excuse for your delay other than Oranges inability to process your order.
Well if it's IPStream and they've placed the order then any delays are almost always down to BT. There can and are delays that crop up from time to time and often no matter the provider you can't really avoid them. Depending on the exact reason sometimes switching to another provider can mean you have to start over again, though usually thats only for capacity issues.
Really though more info is needed on why it's not active. Best is to insist that if the target date has been passed with no activation then they should contact BT and give you an explanation. The full details aren't often given out but a basic reason should help. They could get that info from Eco or BBCR a lot of the time.
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I would phone them, let them know that they have failed to meet their commitments in providing you with your service, and tell them that because of this you are cancelling without penalty as the blame clearly lies with them. If they say you have an outstanding contract to fulfill then stand your ground and refuse. Inspite of what they may say about the contract you have between Orange and yourself, they appear to have failed in meeting legal requirements of current contract legislation. I can't see, with a little bit of assertive persuasion why you can not cancel without penalty and move to an ISP that better suits your needs.
If the line's not been activated then there is no contract effectively in place so if you wish you should be able to cancel at any point. Also assuming it's broadband starter, by the 2 meg speed, then even if it is activated you can cancel in the first 30 days and get your money back.
Well if it's IPStream and they've placed the order then any delays are almost always down to BT.
Oh really, come on!! With Oranges record and there standing in the internet world at present you will be hard pushed to find anyone outside Orange who would support the delay as being down to someone else. Once tarred with a brush its very difficult to get the mucky stuff off, especially when they continue to repeatedly put the brush back into the bucket.
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Really though more info is needed on why it's not active. Best is to insist that if the target date has been passed with no activation then they should contact BT and give you an explanation.
The OP should not have to insist for anything. If Orange do their job and provide a level of acceptable service then the OP should have been given an honest explanation much earlier rather than going through the usual fobbing off process
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The full details aren't often given out but a basic reason should help. They could get that info from Eco or BBCR a lot of the time.
Well this says it all. They have access to the BT systems to enable them to check customer queries but either do not use it or if they do and find a problem fob the customer off. The sensible thing to do if its the latter would have been to speak with the Orange Account Manager at BT and get this sorted in the name of good customer service.
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If the line's not been activated then there is no contract effectively in place so if you wish you should be able to cancel at any point. Also assuming it's broadband starter, by the 2 meg speed, then even if it is activated you can cancel in the first 30 days and get your money back.
Well, not exactly. If the OP has recieved an email from Orange confirming acceptance then the start date is from receipt of that email whether the service is up and running or not. Not a proper way to run a business but then.....
I have actually read posts on here and other sites where this has been the case. Someone trying to cancel even though they have received no service since day one and in some cases no equipment either, to be told by Orange that they still have contractural obligations and that penalties will apply if they wish to cancel.
I'm sorry for my strong views but it really hacks me off when I see company's such as Orange repeatedly treating their customers in such a shoddy manner. I think in terms of Orange it must be very difficult to defend the indefensible.
Joined: 13 Aug 2006Posts: 1689Location: Marylebone Central London
I agree Orange is turning into a complete joke and i really feel sorry for the people who know nothing about broadband wanting Oranges "free" this and "unlimited" that fall for there blatent lies in their tv commercials and bill posting its a total disgrace but it does seem many are getting wise to Orange and its lack of respect for people that innocently sign up get nothing but problems want to cancel only for an Orange agent reading the usual script about fullfilling their 12 or 18 month contract Orange really need to realise a contract works BOTH ways.
_________________ ex Freeserve/Wanadoo/Orange Blog
Oh really, come on!! With Oranges record and there standing in the internet world at present you will be hard pushed to find anyone outside Orange who would support the delay as being down to someone else. Once tarred with a brush its very difficult to get the mucky stuff off, especially when they continue to repeatedly put the brush back into the bucket.
Orders are a relatively simple and automated affair. Once the order is placed with BT then there is little Orange really have to do with it until it's complete. Things can go wrong with placing the order but from what I've seen thats pretty rare and the majority of the time delays are down to work BT need to do in order to provide the broadband.
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The OP should not have to insist for anything. If Orange do their job and provide a level of acceptable service then the OP should have been given an honest explanation much earlier rather than going through the usual fobbing off process
Well this says it all. They have access to the BT systems to enable them to check customer queries but either do not use it or if they do and find a problem fob the customer off. The sensible thing to do if its the latter would have been to speak with the Orange Account Manager at BT and get this sorted in the name of good customer service.
Only some have access to those systems, mainly the Specialist Provisions Team as they deal with this sort of stuff day in day out.
Having access to the systems isn't always that useful though, Eco is useful to check the status but doesn't give much info otherwise, BBCR is better to tell whats going on but as it's by the engineers sometimes it's somewhat technical or mentions internal processes that mean nothing to everyone else, it also doesn't always provide useful timeframes so often calling BT is really the best way in finding out whats going on.
Insisting shouldn't need to be done, I agree, but the information isn't always readily available and BT's provisions team don't open 24/7 so sometimes the only option is to wait and call back or wait for further information to be available from BT.
Problem with commenting on this sort of stuff is we don't know exactly what's going on and all it takes is one detail to be mistaken or not mentioned to turn everything around. If there was mention of DACS for example then this thread would have gone a whole different way.
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I'm sorry for my strong views but it really hacks me off when I see company's such as Orange repeatedly treating their customers in such a shoddy manner. I think in terms of Orange it must be very difficult to defend the indefensible.
Strong views are fine, just give me some warning if you decide to start stalking any of the staff!
Orders are a relatively simple and automated affair. Once the order is placed with BT then there is little Orange really have to do with it until it's complete.
If the process becomes prolonged and beyond the bounds of what is an acceptable timeframe and starts to impact the end user then Orange should contact their Account Manager at BT to get it sorted pronty. That one of the reasons for this person. After all the end user who is suffering as a customer of Orange should expect Orange as a customer of BT Wholesale to phone them and kick up merry hell.
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Only some have access to those systems, mainly the Specialist Provisions Team as they deal with this sort of stuff day in day out.
Be that as it may. Then either they do not know how to use the equipment efficiently or there is not enough of them to deal with the ongoing problems. Either way it shows a lack of customer focus on the part of Orange.
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Having access to the systems isn't always that useful though, Eco is useful to check the status but doesn't give much info otherwise, BBCR is better to tell whats going on but as it's by the engineers sometimes it's somewhat technical or mentions internal processes that mean nothing to everyone else,
One of the arts of good customer support is knowing when your out of your depth and escalating to a more knowledgable source. Unfortunately, far to often this is not the case at Orange as customers are expected to trawl through the same script each time they phone. This forum, unfortunately, is a testament to that.
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it also doesn't always provide useful timeframes so often calling BT is really the best way in finding out whats going on
Exactly my point above and in my previous post.
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Insisting shouldn't need to be done, I agree, but the information isn't always readily available and BT's provisions team don't open 24/7 so sometimes the only option is to wait and call back or wait for further information to be available from BT.
Many customers have had to phone Orange over prolonged periods and still do not have resolves. Infact I read one post on here recently where someone appears to be no further forward after reporting their problem 3 months ago. Sorry, but the 'BT does not run a 24/7 service' is not an excuse in my opinion. Most Orange customers would accept that BT do not run a 24/7 service and would be prepared to wait until next day or after the weekend for some action. A week, 2 weeks, 3 months is not a BT problem. Its a gross lack of customer focus and care on the part of Orange.
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Problem with commenting on this sort of stuff is we don't know exactly what's going on and all it takes is one detail to be mistaken or not mentioned to turn everything around. If there was mention of DACS for example then this thread would have gone a whole different way.
Well, I think the the OP has outline the problem clearly and I do not see any contentious comments that appear to confuse the issue. The OP, like many, has been given what appears to be the standard run around by Orange. However, lets assume the OP did not mention something critical in their post or to Orange. Should'nt make any real difference to Orange. Orange, like any business, chose to be where it is doing what it is supposed to do. As such that means providing a level of expertise and support by providing a professional service in all aspects to its customers. That means investigating all possibilities based on Orange being the experts in the service they provide wto the customer as the end user who is not normally educated in such technical matters.
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Strong views are fine, just give me some warning if you decide to start stalking any of the staff!
Would never go down such route. Hardy lot that they are Never see any point or milage in getting personal with any support staff no matter what the company. No my comments are aimed at Orange as a company that consistently under performs in the area of customer support The blame clearly lies with the Orange and their board. Was it not Eric the Orangeman who implied recently on TV that everything was so much better and all our problems would be resolved within 5 days. Gotta Laff...
To eddizle
Sorry for digressing on your problem but my advice to you is phone Orange and ask them for a MAC and find an ISP that will meet your needs.
If the process becomes prolonged and beyond the bounds of what is an acceptable timeframe and starts to impact the end user then Orange should contact their Account Manager at BT to get it sorted pronty. That one of the reasons for this person. After all the end user who is suffering as a customer of Orange should expect Orange as a customer of BT Wholesale to phone them and kick up merry hell.
The majority of the time there is a valid reason for delays, they don't just delay or slow things down for the fun of it.
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One of the arts of good customer support is knowing when your out of your depth and escalating to a more knowledgable source. Unfortunately, far to often this is not the case at Orange as customers are expected to trawl through the same script each time they phone. This forum, unfortunately, is a testament to that.
In terms of provisioning even the brain dead can do it. You look and see if there's an activation date, if not see if the target date has passed, if it has it's passed to Specialist Provisions and they find out more.
If they are following the "script" then they ought to notice that the first hurdle and several of the others are missing from the track.
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Many customers have had to phone Orange over prolonged periods and still do not have resolves.
I think we're starting to confuse the issue here slightly, this is purely about provisioning and thats a very different topic from connection problems.
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Well, I think the the OP has outline the problem clearly and I do not see any contentious comments that appear to confuse the issue. The OP, like many, has been given what appears to be the standard run around by Orange. However, lets assume the OP did not mention something critical in their post or to Orange. Should'nt make any real difference to Orange.
I more mean't it something mentioned on the call by Orange that means nothing to most people, or it could of been gleaned from the systems and simply not mentioned because most people wouldn't know what it means anyway.
The example of DACS is a classic one as it can easily delay orders for 3-4 weeks and there's very little the ISP can do. I've seen them take longer than that previously. I've talked to BT about such things in the past, both DACS and non-DACS provisioning issues. Sometimes direct from BT all you get are "check back next week" or "we'll look into it again on xxxxxx". Without us knowing the specifics, which we're unlikely to on here, we are just guessing.
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To eddizle
Sorry for digressing on your problem but my advice to you is phone Orange and ask them for a MAC and find an ISP that will meet your needs.
As long as the line isn't provisioned then a MAC cannot be generated. It has to be a fully complete line before it can be migrated, if it is however then all the provisioning talk has been a wild goose chase.
The majority of the time there is a valid reason for delays, they don't just delay or slow things down for the fun of it.
I think the delays caused by Orange in resolving customer problems speaks for itself. If it not for the fun of it it must be incompetence. Orange don't make it easy for themselves by explaining why their are delays. Instead its the old fob off trick of phone us back tomorrow, in a couple of days or maybe 5. An approach guaranteed to annoy most customers.
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In terms of provisioning even the brain dead can do it.
As much as I am tempted, I'll pass on this one for fear of upsetting any Orange people that stumble upon this thread
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I think we're starting to confuse the issue here slightly, this is purely about provisioning and thats a very different topic from connection problems.
Provisioning, connections, poor speeds, etc. Its for Orange to identify the problem and fix.
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Sometimes direct from BT all you get are "check back next week" or "we'll look into it again on xxxxxx".
As long as the line isn't provisioned then a MAC cannot be generated. It has to be a fully complete line before it can be migrated, if it is however then all the provisioning talk has been a wild goose chase.
So this is simple. If its been provisioned then all the OP needs to do is request a MAC and walk. If its not been provisioned then the OP is quite at liberty to bypass Orange and to go straight to another provider for their service.
i just called Orange this morning like they asked, they told me BT will be activating my line today by 5pm so my connection should be up and running by then, only have to wait and see if this is true, if not then i am surely going to cancel the Orange service today and go for good ol BT
Joined: 21 Apr 2006Posts: 94Location: Fallowfield, Manchester
Elhana wrote:
In terms of provisioning even the brain dead can do it. You look and see if there's an activation date, if not see if the target date has passed, if it has it's passed to Specialist Provisions and they find out more.
If they are following the "script" then they ought to notice that the first hurdle and several of the others are missing from the track.
Why is it done like that? IMO a far more sensible system would be to have the checking done automatically. For example, it would be trivial to write a very small program to query a database, compare the current and target dates and check for the presence of an activation date. Missed deadlines are then forwarded to the Specialist Provisions Team and also to a Customer Service Agent to ring the customer to warn them of the failure and to apologize.
Why is it done like that? IMO a far more sensible system would be to have the checking done automatically. For example, it would be trivial to write a very small program to query a database, compare the current and target dates and check for the presence of an activation date. Missed deadlines are then forwarded to the Specialist Provisions Team and also to a Customer Service Agent to ring the customer to warn them of the failure and to apologize.
Because you're talking about a system that also contains a lot of legacy accounts which don't contain that data, yeah they could make it work around them. Why they don't do something like this you'd need to ask upper management.
eddizle wrote:
i just called Orange this morning like they asked, they told me BT will be activating my line today by 5pm so my connection should be up and running by then, only have to wait and see if this is true, if not then i am surely going to cancel the Orange service today and go for good ol BT
This close to activation in order to cancel they'd probably have to send a cease once it's complete which means waiting for the cease to go through then BT to reprovision again, or asking for a MAC but by then it should be working anyway.
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Never see any point or milage in getting personal with any support staff no matter what the company. No my comments are aimed at 
The blame clearly lies with the 
