People come here with different abilities regarding knowledge of PCs and Internet matters etc and seem to be drawn in to the nitty gritty of "what's wrong, how can I get it fixed and what caused the problem."
When most people buy a television set and it goes wrong thereby not giving the service it was designed to give and moreover, does not do what the customer paid for it to do, the customer does not in most cases join an internet forum and get into how the tv works and what the fault may be; this is the job of either the repair service or the retailer who sold it.
I think there should be more emphasis put on forcing the provider to give the service promised and being payed for.
Orange must be absolutely over the moon with all the unpaid technical helpers and armchair engineers here. All this free information is eventually finding its way back to the dept within Orange that is responsible for fixing these probs. Imagine how much money Orange are saving and what it would cost to take on the extra manpower with enough brain power to sort out their own s h i t!!
I say; Don't waste your phone money, your time or your effort doing their job! Just bombard the media from every angle you can and point the finger at the p i s s takers. This may just get them on their toes because at the moment I get the feeling they're spending all their time and energy figuring out how they're going to get themselves out of this mess they've made and save money!
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When most people buy a television set and it goes wrong thereby not giving the service it was designed to give and moreover, does not do what the customer paid for it to do, the customer does not in most cases join an internet forum and get into how the tv works and what the fault may be; this is the job of either the repair service or the retailer who sold it.
Yes, but retailer will equally want to be sure before accepting problem that it is not related to connected equipment(ie aerial, home cinema system, DVD/VCR recorder, etc). Not a lot of diference to internet I would think (ie PC, modem/router, cabling, etc).
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All this free information is eventually finding its way back to the dept within Orange that is responsible for fixing these probs. Imagine how much money Orange are saving and what it would cost to take on the extra manpower with enough brain power to sort out their own s h i t!!
Absolutely nothing saved as they do not have the people to understand the technical stuff thats being discussed here. If they did we would not be here!!!!
Absolutely nothing saved as they do not have the people to understand the technical stuff thats being discussed here. If they did we would not be here!!!!
Don't kid yourself; there's always someone taking down notes in huge companies
Unless of course you know something from the inside
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Yes, but retailer will equally want to be sure before accepting problem that it is not related to connected equipment(ie aerial, home cinema system, DVD/VCR recorder, etc). Not a lot of diference to internet I would think (ie PC, modem/router, cabling, etc).
A hell of a lot of difference. Retailers ask a few simple questions and then make a decision, they don't ignore customers or carry on like Orange do for months on end or have tech support tennis tournamet lines driving folk crazy..... etc etc etc
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Don't kid yourself; there's always someone taking down notes in huge companies
Unless of course you know something from the inside
First of all they'd have to learn to write and secondly if they do have someone taking notes (presumably from this forum) then it ain't being used. As can be seen from this and other forums SAME Orange CRAP, DIFFERNT DAY.
Hmmmm, This post must be a bit of a shock then, 'cause I can write and I work for Orange Tech Support!!!!!!!! Yes, I make notes from this forum, yes I understand them.........and yes I even incorporate them into my job - TO TRY AND HELP WHERE I CAN.
Do you know? I take about 40 calls a day and my first time fix rate is over 70%. Now, I am not suggesting in any way there are no problems, but it is frankly pathetic (notice the multi-sylible words now) to paint INDIVIDUALS as a lower form of life just because they work for a company you clearly have issues with.
dog with a bone - by all means slag Orange to death as a company and its policies/products/service etc. (freedom of speech and all that) but be aware when you get personal you are coming across with as much intelect as your canine username suggests.
I take about 40 calls a day and my first time fix rate is over 70%.
If you read the posts on this forum then 70% is exceptional. In any other service industry that strives for customer excellence this would probably be seen as falling well short of expectations. If you look at telecoms companies that are required to submit Comparable Performance Indicators to OFCOM you will see figures in excess of 98% for customer satisfaction and fault rectifications. Perhaps if there was a legal requirement for ISPs to do the same then the level of customer service and support will force change for the better.
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when you get personal you are coming across with as much intelect as your canine username suggests.
Hmmmm, This post must be a bit of a shock then, 'cause I can write and I work for Orange Tech Support!!!!!!!! Yes, I make notes from this forum, yes I understand them.........and yes I even incorporate them into my job - TO TRY AND HELP WHERE I CAN.
Do you know? NoI take about 40 calls a day and my first time fix rate is over 70%. , I am not suggesting in any way there are no problems, but it is frankly pathetic (notice the multi-sylible words now) to paint INDIVIDUALS as a lower form of life just because they work for a company you clearly have issues with.
dog with a bone - by all means slag Orange to death as a company and its policies/products/service etc. (freedom of speech and all that) but be aware when you get personal you are coming across with as much intelect as your canine username suggests.
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"I take about 40 calls a day and my first time fix rate is over 70%."
So out of the 40 you only ' think' you give a first time fix to 28, I say this because untill several days have elapsed and the fault confirmed to be cleared you have no way of knowing if it has actually been fixed, if it has not you do not get the subsequent return calls!
If you work an 8 hour day it gives an average of 12min per call.
The question being, what happens to the other 12 with unsolved faults?
Do you 'stay on their case' untill you solve their problem?
Or are they put on the ' we hope it will fix its self or they go away' Orange merry go round ?
Put it another way 12 non fixes x 365 days = 4380 x 100?? tech support operators = 438,000 unhappy bunnies, and that is presuming the 70% fix is the norm across the board, though from experience it is far lower than this.
What is your comment to, or advice to the 30% you don't fix? line test, escalate, phone back, we will call you back?
In reply to some of today's posts following my earlier comments:
When I say 'first time fix' - I mean it! The customer relays a tech issue (usually a non-functioning connection or PC to Livebox connection issue) and by the time the phone phone call ends the customters issue is resolved (i.e. the connection is working). I do not include untested fixes in this category. The vast majority of calls I deal with are due to faulty setup, wireless issues, known issues with the livebox (that are easily and immediately resolved) and PC issues. You may or may not believe it but these simple and -dare I say- mundane issues are the bread n butter of 1st line tech and we are pretty good at solving them. You're spot on with the average call length, but I would point out that many simply issues don't take that long to sort giving us more time to sort the difficult stuff. My call length record is 2hrs 8mins - yes and I fixed it 1st time, getting a complimentary email from the customer to boot!
Of the remaining 'unfixed' calls.......many are follow up calls regarding line tests (though even with these I check that a colleague has not missed something obvious), If I have gone though a diagnostic process and it is clear that a line test is needed, then that also come under the non-fix category (for me on average, 2-3 per day?). Sometimes too, customers call up with what appears to be an Orange problem and ultimately it is an issue outside of our remit. (e.g A hardware fault with their PC, an OS issue or other (non-supported) hardware). With the best will in the world that is not our remit to deal with and shouldn't be. But in every one of these scenarios I attempt to be as constructive as possible as I know most of my colleagues are.
In my opinion, the main single reason for the frustration and horror stories shared on this forum is POOR COMMUNICATION from Orange, particularly surrounding line issues. Line problems are a REALITY guys - for us and every other ISP in the land! Many agents give the impression when they request the customer to call back in 24hrs etc. that a fix will be in place for their line by that time. This is simply not the case normally - (what a source of frustration, I cannot imagine). The stark reality is many line issues take several days to several weeks to sort out. It is entirely our responsibility to sort these - but at the same time the fix timescale is often outside our direct control. We should (and some of us do try to) be realistic about those timescales. I know on many occasions Orange is guity of seriously P@**@!g off a customer when they give unrealistic expectations of a fix timescale, simply because it is easier not to communicate something you know your customer does not want to hear.
We are encouraged to take ownership to a degree and 'first call resolution' is one of the quality targets Orange tech agents are expenced to meet. I can only speak for myself here, but if there is any way I can 'see the issue through' and resolve on first call I will. That is not always practical. So in a predominately inbound call environment there are limitations and once I have finished with the call (fixed or not) I usually am not in a position to take ownership. HOWEVER, ther are other higher level teams that do this.
You won't believe me - but I'll tell you the truth anyway.....only a very small minority of customer experience the sort of issues aired on this forum. That is not to belittle or underestimate these very real problems that can cause real stress and upset. Nor is it in anyway letting Orange off the hook, as there are clearly plenty of pepole going away from our tech thinking it's crap. Even if that isn't true, by virtue of the fact the PERCEPTION is there is damage enough.
Final non-Orange specific point about broadband in general..........market conditions mean the price of consumer broadband is at an all time low with fierce competition and new deals all the time. You CANNOT have the 98% first fix tech service you (and I) desire at the price we are paying - it simply isn't economically viable! Did you know if you are on IP stream (not LLU) £10 of your mothly charge goes straight to BT Wholesale? If you download over 50GB / month ANY ISP is losing money on you? It costs all ISP's £40 to set you up for BB in the fist place? So, you only get what the market is prepared to pay for........and no as a consumer of Broadband I don't like it either. Not all is rosy at other ISP's either....any of you seen btsucks.org....or talktalkhell.org etc.
Just trying to give some perspective on a bigger issue.
Final non-Orange specific point about broadband in general..........market conditions mean the price of consumer broadband is at an all time low with fierce competition and new deals all the time. You CANNOT have the 98% first fix tech service you (and I) desire at the price we are paying - it simply isn't economically viable! Did you know if you are on IP stream (not LLU) £10 of your mothly charge goes straight to BT Wholesale? If you download over 50GB / month ANY ISP is losing money on you? It costs all ISP's £40 to set you up for BB in the fist place? So, you only get what the market is prepared to pay for........and no as a consumer of Broadband I don't like it either. Not all is rosy at other ISP's either....any of you seen btsucks.org....or talktalkhell.org etc.
Just trying to give some perspective on a bigger issue.
So pay peanuts get monkeys ....
If I download more than 50gb well the wording of my package that I pay £27.99 for says "unlimited downloads" Im paying for this and the TS . You cant blame the industry for call centre incompetence . If I pay for a service I expect to get it . Your T&C's says "due care and expertise" with regards to quality of service .
Oldest trick in the book is exaggerate how long it takes to fix something so when you do it quicker the customer thinks your superman . Orange appears to miss the "do it quicker" bit every time .
Again I have no problem with my service Im lucky . Many others dont and the service they recieve can be pretty lacklustre .
At the end of the day everyone is paying for TS and the service . If it fails customers get upset . Add to this a TS agent who doesnt understand the technology and barely the language and you have a very annoyed customer . 5 calls later they get vitriolic and end up here foaming at the mouth .
Orange like nearly every ISP needs to clean up its act as the consumers are pretty fed up with misinformation and shoddy support because "its cheap" . Personally Id rather pay a couple of pounds more a month to talk to a real technician that knows the job and I can understand and doesnt go through pointless checks and then tells me to call back 24hrs later as he doesnt want to tell me I have zero hope of being online anytime soon . Which he is being paid for .
The stark reality is many line issues take several days to several weeks to sort out.
Yeh, well I think thats what upsets customers. Being asked to phone back repeatedly to find a broken commitment. Any company with a half decent customer service department would take it upon themselves to phone the customer back at regular intervals and provide progress updates where fix times become prolonged.
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It is entirely our responsibility to sort these - but at the same time the fix timescale is often outside our direct control.
I take it we're talking about line tests so please tell how its outside Oranges control.
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HOWEVER, ther are other higher level teams that do this.
yes, and I have had first hand dealings with these. Have had an ongoing talk problem since I signed up for it. Eventually got escalated to CAT as a result of complaint to ISPA. First contact from CAT made a commitment and failed to follow it up. Another complaint to ISPA resulting in different contact from CAT resulting in another broken commitment. Third complaint to ISPA and yet another CAT member whose only concern was to get away for her xmas holiday. 'but don't worry sir., I will phone you on my return, promise.' Have'nt heard from her since. I hope your seeing the same common theme that I am seeing. That communication, commitment and customer focus is woefully lacking within Orange.
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market conditions mean the price of consumer broadband is at an all time low with fierce competition and new deals all the time. You CANNOT have the 98% first fix tech service you (and I) desire at the price we are paying - it simply isn't economically viable!
The price any service provider pays and passes onto its customer should not be at the expense of good customer service.
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Did you know if you are on IP stream (not LLU) £10 of your mothly charge goes straight to BT Wholesale?
Well actually its £8.40 and soon to reduce again. Lets hope that if Orange don't pass this reduction onto its customers it at least uses it to improves its customer service.
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If you download over 50GB / month ANY ISP is losing money on you?
Not strictly true. Any ISP offering Unlimited as Orange purport to needs to select the correct charging methon they pay to BT. Capacity Charging is a fixed charge and as opposed to Usage Charging which is made up from a fixed and data throughput charge.
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It costs all ISP's £40 to set you up for BB in the fist place?
Yes, and so retention of customers as long as possible by offering realistic products and good customer service becomes paramount
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Not all is rosy at other ISP's either....any of you seen btsucks.org....or talktalkhell.org etc.
Ah, so we're s**t, but that ok because everyone else is aswell.
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Just trying to give some perspective on a bigger issue.
Sorry mate but, dispite your openess and honesty, your posts in this thread are sounding more like an everyday phonecalls to Orange customer services. Full of excuses but no solutions.
tvman - I hope I have not come across as I have all the answers actually, 'cause that would just be crass! At the same time however, it is not a bunch of excuses - just a reality check.
HOW I AGREE with your quote ' The price any service provider pays and passes onto its customer should not be at the expense of good customer service'.
BUT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Read any forum on a major ISP (yes Orange included) and note the theme: cheap pricing, generally poor customer service and tech support. IT IS NOT HOW IT SHOULD BE, but I whos going to buck the trend and put their prices UP so as to get the revenue stream to pay for the 'proper support'?
Yeah, right no one, casue everyone will look at the bottom line, vote with their feet and join the cheapest ISP they can find and moan on a forum like this one about them when it all goes wrong!!
Cynical? maybe.....I think as a bigger picture what you see happening on Orange problems is reflected across the industry as a whole. Your points are valid and entirely credible, but perhaps this is an industry wide issue we are looking at here and not just an 'Orange Problem'.
Your points are valid and entirely credible, but perhaps this is an industry wide issue we are looking at here and not just an 'Orange Problem'.
From your prospective I can see that. However, if you look around the forums you will see ISPs that are bucking the trend by offering a service along with more than adequate support. From where I sit I pay Orange for my service and I'm not interested in other ISPs who choose, along with Orange, to hang around the bottom of the ladder.
Hmmmm, This post must be a bit of a shock then, 'cause I can write and I work for Orange Tech Support!!!!!!!! Yes, I make notes from this forum, yes I understand them.........and yes I even incorporate them into my job - TO TRY AND HELP WHERE I CAN.
Do you know? I take about 40 calls a day and my first time fix rate is over 70%. Now, I am not suggesting in any way there are no problems, but it is frankly pathetic (notice the multi-sylible words now) to paint INDIVIDUALS as a lower form of life just because they work for a company you clearly have issues with.
dog with a bone - by all means slag Orange to death as a company and its policies/products/service etc. (freedom of speech and all that) but be aware when you get personal you are coming across with as much intelect as your canine username suggests.
Please point me to every post wherein I have gotten personal with you!
If others feel I have gotten personal with them then they must confront me themselves and point me towards the posts that I have been personal towards them; unless of course they are appointing you as their spokesman/woman and in that case I require proof of identity of those people!
When this country was full of good old fashioned family firms who had generations of workers in them then loyalty was a very beneficial thing for everyone concerned. However, those companies are now very few and far between and we now have huge multi national corporations whose employees are nameless, faceless numbers who are generally expected to show loyalty whilst being treated like brainless money making machines.
If you happen to be one of these employees who is prepared to be treated like a brainless, loyal, faceless number then good luck to you; That's your choice and it is the path that you have chosen. Your loyalty would be admirable if it were extended towards a company that cared but can you honestly say that if the s**t hit the fan Orange would give a toss about your welfare????
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