hi there, I live in an ADSL Max area and recently changed from a very stable 2 Meg tiscali to Orange with a livebox.
I only lived 2 to 300 yrds from the exchange and online speed tests showed I was pulling 7.5 Meg - Hurrah.
However, I moved.
After 5 weeks of incompetence from Orange I eventually got connected. The new place is in the same exchage area and I transferred my BT number over. The distance from the local exchange has increased by maybe 200 yards.
HOWEVER
Orange tell me that the most my telephone line can support is 1/2 meg.
My livebox stats are as follows;
ADSL firmware version : A2pBT009.d16m-1
Connection mode : G.DMT
Type : Fast
Noise margin (dB) : 30.2
Attenuation (dB) : 16.0
Attainable download rate (kbps) : 10080
ADSL status : Connected [0]
Downstream Upstream
Rate (kbps) 576 288
To me this looks as though my line can easily support the available 8 Meg but orange are capping it at 576 kbs
The complaints department at Orange tell me that the attainable speed rating on the Livebox is nothing to do with line speed and is only referring to the capacity of the Livebox. This is contrary to my belief.
When pressed to find out why my line is capped, they told me that is what BT told them.
I cannot speak to BT myself and Orange are not prepared to ask the question of BT either. - what can i do?
The complaints department at Orange tell me that the attainable speed rating on the Livebox is nothing to do with line speed and is only referring to the capacity of the Livebox. This is contrary to my belief.
You're right on here, the attainable speed is the livebox's rough calculation of what speed "may" be attainable on the line. It can however be wrong as things can work differently in practice. It is not the livebox's maximum speed as there's a bunch of postings on here showing very different attainables as it's due to the line and signal.
Quote:
When pressed to find out why my line is capped, they told me that is what BT told them.
I cannot speak to BT myself and Orange are not prepared to ask the question of BT either. - what can i do?
It is possible the BT system is showing the wrong info for your line and therefore preventing an upgrade going through. There's a couple of things to check first.
If you log into the Orange member centre does it give you any options to upgrade your speed? Try checking your number in http://www.samknows.com/broadb...ecker2.php and see what results it comes up with.
Also when did you move and when was the line evantually activated?
I managed to speak to BT Wholesale Provisions team and although they were reluctant to deal with me, after a bit of pleading they told me that the exchange is enabled toprovvide 8 Meg and the only factor the would affect that would be the distance from the exchange.
The line length from the exchange is 454 metres so I would be getting as near to 8 meg as you can get. They also told me to speak to my ISP as they were unable help any further.
I had another crack at Orange and it now sounds like it is an internal account problem. The good news is that I have made contact at Orange with perhaps the only person who actualy cares about the job they do.
I dont profess to understand the workings of their systeme burt I may have success and be promoted back to an 8 Meg speed.
I managed to speak to BT Wholesale Provisions team and although they were reluctant to deal with me, after a bit of pleading they told me that the exchange is enabled toprovvide 8 Meg and the only factor the would affect that would be the distance from the exchange.
Yeah normally they only deal with ISP's directly, you probably heard the messages about that before you got through. To be honest you can get more info than what they seemed to give you from their online availability checker.
Quote:
The line length from the exchange is 454 metres so I would be getting as near to 8 meg as you can get. They also told me to speak to my ISP as they were unable help any further.
Distance has a major part to play in ADSL Max speeds but don't assume it guarantees close to 8 meg, all it takes is a bad piece of cable or joint buried under a road to knock that down a huge amount.
Quote:
I had another crack at Orange and it now sounds like it is an internal account problem.
...
I dont profess to understand the workings of their systeme burt I may have success and be promoted back to an 8 Meg speed.
I have to wait 48 hours and will keep you posted.
Hard to know what caused the original problem but at least it's getting sorted. Probably won't be done in 48 hours but by then you should at least be able to be sure it's being reordered on ADSL Max.
Well the main thing to know is if you're getting switched to ADSL Max. If so then don't worry about the speed Orange or BT say at the moment as ADSL Max isn't limited to a set speed except after a fault and due to stability issues. It'll run at the fastest it can on your line and set it's own threshold for what quantifys a fault in terms of speed.
Also did you check the Orange member centre and availability checker I linked to, what did they show for the ADSL availability on your line and any speed upgrades available?
Once you have that info you could try asking for whoever you speak to at Orange to check with Specialist Provisionings over it, they may be able to look into it a bit deeper.
...Also it told me I am 454m away from the exchange.
Thats almost guaranteed to be wrong but it's normal and nothing to dwell upon.
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The upgrade on Orange Member centre says that I am on the fastest speed that my line can support ie 1/2 meg.
I think there is a restriction to 1/2 Meg imposed by Orange that they either
1 - do not know how to remove, or
2 - not prepared to remove for unknown reasons.
More likely a glitch in some system has caused that as it should get the info direct from BT and an ADSL Max speed prediction of 8meg should mean you can get 2 meg on non-Max.
As I mentioned before Specialist Provisions would probably be the best ones to ask this be checked with.
If you don't know anything else about a line then the length can give rough estimate of its capabilities. However the attenuation is a much better guide and if you know this you might a well ignore the length. The following link will estimate line capability based on current speed, attenuation and margin:
As for the Livebox "attainable" rate, the limited evidence so far indicates it's a very accurate guide. You'd expect it to be accurate since presumably it's based on the channel SNRs measured during the synch process.
I've only seen 2 sets of livebox stats for sub-8Mbps ADSLmax lines on here, both, I think, posted by keithwjones.
(Keith - If you read this would you mind posting your stats? Thanks.)
In both cases the synch speed was just 32kbps off the attainable speed.
Synch speeds on LLU lines are another matter and depend on Orange's Line Management (DLM) process, whatever that is. Some of the LLU stats posted on here have shown large differences between synch and (sub-8Mbps) attainable speeds.
(If there's anyone reading who's on LLU and has investigated this, I'd be interested to hear your conclusions.)
There's 2 important points to bear in mind. First, download speeds will always be less than synch speeds due to protocol overheads. Also ADSLmax lines will have a BRAS rate and all lines may suffer from contention and ISP traffic management. See
Secondly, noise and therefore "attainable rate" may vary throughout the day. Lines synch at a rate which leaves enough noise magin (usually, initially 6dB) to 'absorb' this variation. On some lines, particularly those with internal wiring 'issues', this margin may not be enough.
[If you have extension wiring and if you either
(1) have no/intermittent synch problems or,
(2) are about to move from a fixed speed (up to 2Mbps) service to a rate adaptive (ADSLmax or LLU, up to 8Mbps) service
then probabaly the most important step you can take is to see if there is any improvement (e.g. by comparing stats) at the test socket:
The complaints department at Orange tell me that the attainable speed rating on the Livebox is nothing to do with line speed and is only referring to the capacity of the Livebox.
LOL
It looks like Orange have put you on a fixed 0.5Mbps service. It would be helpful if you could paste the results from the BTw checker, minus your number, into this thread. See:
For Telephone Number 01200****** on Exchange CLITHEROE
Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a line rate up to 2Mbps.
Our test also indicates that your line should be able to support a potential ADSL Max broadband line rate of 8Mbps.
The actual ADSL Max line rate supportable will be determined during the first 10 days of use, after which time the highest stable rate possible will be set.
- Was on e7even broadband (fine until they went bust) at fixed 2Mbps
- Changed to Orange broadband starter - speed lowered to 1Mbps (fine thats what you get with Starter)
- Upgraded to Orange BB plus (ie upto 8Mbps) with Livebox but speed stuck at 1Mbps
My stats from Livebox (If you don't know how to get this type 192.168.1.1 into explorer then Admin and Admin to get into the Livebox at the prompts):
ADSL firmware version : A2pBT009.d16m-1
Connection mode : G.DMT
Type : Fast
Noise margin (dB) : 35.2
Attenuation (dB) : 18.0
Attainable download rate (kbps) : 10624
ADSL status : Connected [0]
The downstream/upstream rate never changes, however the max attainable rate varies (eg if plugging straight into Master socket I get max attainable of >11Mbps). I've been told that the max rate is set permanently after a 10 day period of line speed checking. After complaining apparently this was reinitiated - I'm now past the 10 days and nothing seems to have changed, although am keeping fingers crossed.
Following instructions from a helpful person at Orange I've checked the BB checker on www.Samknows.com (crucially the availability checker, not phone search or exchange search) and then clicked on 'BT ADSL' and got the following:
BT ADSL broadband availability
You are connected to the Morningside telephone exchange.
ADSL is available in your area
Your exchange is also enabled for ADSL Max services
According to BT Wholesale, your line should be able to support a 1Mbps or greater ADSL connection.
Standard ADSL RAG results:
You cannot receive 2Mbps ADSL
You may be able to receive 1Mbps ADSL
You can receive 512Kbps ADSL
You can receive 256Kbps ADSL
There appears to a compatibility issue with your phone line. This could be caused by an existing DSL connection, ISDN, a DACS unit, TPON, a pending ADSL order or many other common issues. This will need to be resolved before ADSL can be supplied to your line.
[I am 602m from the exchange straight line distance]
=> Well, you might say problem solved - you can only have 1Mbps. However this doesn't tie in with:
a) What I got before, ie upto 2Mbps (OK I know I'm ADSL Max now which I understand is a little different but still...)
b) A neighbour a little up the street who just got the 2Mbps Orange
c) The livebox stats which say >10Mbps
d) I'm certain that the BB checker used to say 8Mbps no problem
I suspect the BT checker has changed (I've read of problems with this in the past) - but I'm wondering if my switch to fixed 1Mbps originally with Orange is the source of the problem - somehow this has got fixed in BT's database and when Orange try to change it the BT database tells them 'sorry no can do'.....
Anyway this is my experience - perhaps others are having similar problems - particularly if a lower ADSL service had been provided previously?? Do others have the same sort of stats in Livebox (eg Mode: Permanent 1-1)?
a) What I got before, ie upto 2Mbps (OK I know I'm ADSL Max now which I understand is a little different but still...)
b) A neighbour a little up the street who just got the 2Mbps Orange
c) The livebox stats which say >10Mbps
d) I'm certain that the BB checker used to say 8Mbps no problem
Ok first big thing, you're not on ADSL Max. Ask Orange specifically if you're on LLU or ADSL Max, as (since I've learn't from JohnM) the 288 upload shows either upload happened to sync at this value (very unlikely) or you're on LLU/Non-ADSL Max. If they say it's ADSL Max ask them to confirm this with Specialist Provisions as the info is conflicting.
The livebox stats do suggest that you should be able to get close to if not the full 8 meg.
Quote:
I suspect the BT checker has changed (I've read of problems with this in the past) - but I'm wondering if my switch to fixed 1Mbps originally with Orange is the source of the problem - somehow this has got fixed in BT's database and when Orange try to change it the BT database tells them 'sorry no can do'.....
By the stats, very likely. This however shouldn't effect ADSL Max, if you were on it, as it should boost the speed upto it's limit.
It's possible something is "stuck" preventing the change to Max but specialist provisions should be able to provice more insight if thats the case.
Samknows says: The following services are available in your location:
BT Wholesale ADSL
BT Wholesale ADSL Max
Bulldog LLU
Telewest Cable
21CN switch-over due Q4 2011
I guess I assumed I was on ADSL max because a) they don't appear to have LLU and b) thats the only way they can get 'upto 8Mbps' (the Orange BB plus service), is via BT Wholesale ADSL max?
I hadn't realised the upload speed was an indicator of whether I was max-ed or not - I'll check this with them as you suggest. Thanks!
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