Joined: 13 Nov 2009Posts: 408Location: South East Essex
I think it was Borednow that knew the email for the Chief Exec, I'd appreciate a PM with the details so I can send a reasoned view of the 20meg service & the problems we're all seeing.
My modem is telling me that I could get between 14,000 and 14,500 possible line speed, so 13 meg should be achievable. So will check in the morning to see if the Orange DLM agrees with me. Surely I am next in the queue. LOL!
well well well old friends, VLAD here again. Thought it was too good to be true.
Just been on phone to fault management as my speed has dropped again. Fri = 8meg; Mon = 6; Today = 4.
(got through really quick! rang usual number up to tech problems then got so frustrated hit # and * randomly and got straight into the Fault Management Team!!)
So what I'm told tonight sheds a bit more light on the issue.
The faults team can look at a system they have called "LUKO" [spelt as it sounds]. That shows each time the DLM regrades your service. It's called regrade but what it really means is recalibrate. The bummer is the Orange DLM interprets a non-connected non-powered modem as a line connection "problem" or failure and drops the available speed by about 2 meg. So because my modem is off every time I am not working at the pc and the check happened each day at 00:22; 00:24 and 00:11 my line screams "fault".
And unlike the BT version it does not find a level and set it but constantly (daily) checks. Also it sounds like it works on a comparative basis, bit like a running average, which is why it needs at least the 5 clear days to become stable at a level (assuming the modem is on every time the check is made and the real line capability hasn't changed) before it would go up again.
Now, the O man said - they are only just finding out such things as this. I said that it has not been designed correctly if it can't discriminate between a non required connection and one that has instability. He said he would look at whether I could go back to the old 8 meg fixed package but I doubt that will swing with the executive champions!
What I'm thinking is although I could live with leaving the router on permanently (although don't want to really) you go on holly for 2 weeks and always come back to a 1meg max line!! GREAT. Whoever designed this system is a plank; or on another planet.
PS would really appreciate a PM with that chief exec e-mail, We are all in the same boat!! He needs his windscreen cleaning. As someone said earlier (in this award winning length post!) lots will have this problem - they just have not looked.
The Orange DLM software is badly written, badly designed, badly rolled out and badly tested!!! And guess who the guinea pigs are!!!!!!!
This has made my mind up about leaving Orange now. I was hoping to see my line speed improve and I have been waiting for weeks. My modem has been on every night for weeks now but no speed increase at all. I have given Orange every chance and more besides!
But and it is a big BUT, if my speed does increase and I get 13 meg, the thought of the DLM software moving me down by 2 meg if my router happens to be switched off, or there is a storm which causes a bad line and the DLM throws the toys out, I don't think I could cope!!!!!!!!
I would need to be carted off by men in white coats!!!
I agree whoever designed that piece of software should really be brought to task!
Does anyone know how the BT DLM works? I think borednow hinted at how that one works, I could do with a full explanation please. My exchange gets enabled by BT to offer 20 meg in a couple of months time and that opens my options up even further. Now if I know that the BT software locks your line into a top speed and doesn't spit its dummy out everytime, then I know where I will be heading.
Just to add that my speed is still the same old slow 0.8meg.
And to add that my router has been all all the time for weeks AND I have had stable lines every day, 14,000 to 14,500 throughout the day.
So why has the DLM ignored my line at these times just after midnight, my router is ON and my line has been 100% for well over a period of 5 days!
YET NO INCREASE IN SPEED AT ALL!!
And if I did want to turn my router off overnight, even though I have not for weeks, why shouldn't I???? It should have no effect at all on a proper written DLM piece of software.
DLM should go like the following:
Check potential ATTAINABLE line speed.
Increase to this speed.
If router complains (NOT by being switched off) drop speed to 1 meg below.
Keep checking router over this time, lock in speed once happy.
Keep checking line. Router switched off does not constitute a line fault!
Customer is happy with locked speed.
Also Orange should be able to overwrite line speeds MANUALLY just in case the DLM software is playing up, NOT leave customers with slow speeds for weeks at the mercy of the DLM.
Just to add a complaint to Watchdog about how the Orange up to 20 meg package is leaving customers with 1 meg speed due to faulty and/or badly written DLM software would go down a storm!
Joined: 13 Nov 2009Posts: 408Location: South East Essex
Vlad that's a most useful post.
Someone at O admitting they don't really fully understand DLM is probably the first honest comment from them.
I've been at full speed for 3 weeks now - initially 10meg and crept up to 12+meg - and last night my modem was off for the first time in weeks and the only effect was that I've got 50kbps more today than yesterday. So hopefully DLM might not be too crippling when no modem present.
As for other ISPs, it's my understanding that Sky & o2 (now Sky) do the speed stabilisation in the first 5-10 days and then only occasionally run checks. I know that o2 (now Sky) can manually intervene quite simply with a call to their CS. Obviously I'm talking LLU here. o2 (now Sky) has the advantage of UK based freephone support btw.
BBK , what other LLU options do you have in your exchange?
Talk Talk, not interested in.
Sky possible but have to use their router.
Other suppliers will be able to offer me up to 20 meg from end of March onwards using BT, emailed a few of them with a few questions, awaiting their replies.
status report: as I expected my ADSL line "speed" went up overnight by 2 meg to 6139kbps. Am thinking that I'll monitor about this time [19:30] for the next few days. I'll keep posting to demonstrate if what I think is correct. If we had such a customer issue where I work we'd have had it sorted ages ago.
Was good to hear from Tinytim that switching his router off had little impact. Perhaps the gal who told me about system was not 100% knowledgeable and the system tests every now and again say based on an algorithm associated with changes made over a longer period. Can only really know if can get a tech spec for the O system. Doubtfull.
For once i went back to the home page and noticed by scrolling down just how much is in here.
Congrats to the site and all those who post and I've just read Kevin Ellis's first post [the man behind the site] and my blood ran oh so cold.
glad you hear your are going the right way with your speeds vlad.
I am stuck in neutral!
My daughter wanted mod racers demo downloaded on her PS3. It would normally have taken around say 30 mins from the PSN. Set the download away at 4:30pm, it finished downloading the 2GB demo at 10:30pm, way past her bedtime! 6 hours for a 2Gb download!!!!!
Router has been left on for weeks. So if the DLM checks my line at midnight or whenever then surely it will have seen that I have been able to handle 12 meg to 14 megs for god knows how many days.
Doing loads of research into other providers, but in the meantime this is turning into a farce!
If anyone out there reads this and find themselves in the same situation as me, then welcome aboard, I really feel for you.
Everyone else who has manged to get the DLM to work, I would re-negotiate with Orange to ensure that you are not held to any contract fees, because if the DLM decides to put you on low speeds again, it may take months for it to be put right!
Flashed my router to an old firmware so I could enable the DMT noise level adjustment. Managed to get it to sync from 12,200 to 14,500, possible best speed. However could not get it to make the changes permanent and the router did not like new settings, kept rebooting. Amended the noise level and stabilised the router at around 12,750. Then it would be just a matter of waiting for the DLM to kick in!!!!
However the router firmware I have been using syncs at a much higher speed, 13,750 to 14,500 to reverted back to that. Shame the firmware I have cannot be adjusted, could get it even higher possible over 15,000 but never mind.
However all that is just in theory because in practice, the DLM on my line is AWOL!
I just don't know how you can stick with Orange running at <1meg....I'd have been out of there once they'd issued the MAC on the 15 January.....you must like the pain that's all I can say
Are you genuinely waiting for the speed to increase ?
Take a look at this thread...it's worse....this guy went without a BB connection for 18 months
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