Hi. I am at my wits end (as as most of you probably) with my Orange 2MB Livebox connection.
When I first got my livebox back in October last year it worked fine, but occasionally the connection would suddenly drop out. My wireless link was still connected because I could view my ADSL Status, which would read "Synchronisation in Progess" over and over again until it said "Link Down".
This would happen about once or twice a day and could be fixed by turning the power on and off on the livebox or rebooting it remotely (http://192.168.1.1/rebootinfo.cgi). I wasn't too happy with it, but it seemed a minor inconvenience at the time.
This was soon not to be the case. In the last few months the connection has been dropping out constantly every 10 or 20 minutes, sometimes every 3 minutes with the same problem. Sometimes the ADSL Status gets as far as "PPP in Progress" but then goes back to "Synchronisation in Progess".
I called Orange and was told I needed to check my connections and filter and try and replace the filter with a new one. Living with room-mates I didn't have my old Wanadoo box to hand so I had to go out to the local PC World and buy a filter.
I plugged this in instead of my old one and of course there was no difference in the problem. I had made sure I had unplugged any phones or extra equipment in the house that might be causing the problem and my livebox was plugged in correctly at the main BT phone point.
I then rang up again and was told they would do a line check and to stay off the phone and internet for 2 hours.
I then rang back again and was told that the line check had come back with "possible problems" and that I should check all my connections which I did AGAIN and told them. They said they would do a second line test.
I rang back the next day and was told the same thing, to check connections again. I told them nothing had changed, they seemed unaware that they'd spoke to me the day before. They told me they were now going to get BT to do a line test and to stay off the phone / internet for 24 hours.
24 hours later I rang again, to be told that BT might have found a problem and the answer would be to check my connections again and then do another line test. This pi**ed me off quite a bit and I ended up telling them that I'd been doing this over and over again for the last 4 days, the connections were DEFINITELY all correct and I didn't need another line check if they were just going to say the same thing tomorrow.
The girl on the end went a bit quiet and I felt kinda bad, but she told me she was going to ring BT directly and put me on hold for 20 mins (Orange only have 4 songs on their waiting track by the way, so you might go insane if you are put on hold much).
She then told me that BT were going to do another line test, but wouldn't send an engineer out to me because I was able to get a connection "occasionally" rather than never (even though it was for about 2 mins at a time). After a bit of arguing she put me on hold again and rang BT and was told they would ring me up reguarding an engineer and that I shouldn't ring them again till he'd been.
After 8 or so hours I got a call from BT telling me there would be an engineer coming to be in 2 weeks (28th) so I am still waiting.
On top of this Orange told me that I was only on a 1 Meg line despite the fact I was supposed to be on 2MB. I told them that their phone line checker told me my maximum speed was 1MB, maybe being on 2MB was the problem, they then said I was never on 2MB. They told me I could that the download rate of 220KB/S I could acheive (when it was working) is normal for a good 1MB line.
After speaking to BT, they told me I was on 2MB, the BT line test says I can have 3.5MB. The Orange speed upgrade page says I can upgrade from 2MB to 1MB?!? for £20
I live 2.4 miles from my exchange, as far as I know, this shouldn't cause a problem.
As you can see the whole thing leaves me confused. I would like to think its either my livebox, the wiring in my house or the local exchange, but I have no idea. I am computer literate (doing a degree in Computer and Information Systems) but am finding it very frustrating because I can't leave Orange for another 4 months due to my contract.
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions on what the problem might be or what I can do to get it fixed?
...After 8 or so hours I got a call from BT telling me there would be an engineer coming to be in 2 weeks (28th) so I am still waiting.
On top of this Orange told me that I was only on a 1 Meg line despite the fact I was supposed to be on 2MB. I told them that their phone line checker told me my maximum speed was 1MB, maybe being on 2MB was the problem, they then said I was never on 2MB. They told me I could that the download rate of 220KB/S I could acheive (when it was working) is normal for a good 1MB line.
...
After speaking to BT, they told me I was on 2MB, the BT line test says I can have 3.5MB. The Orange speed upgrade page says I can upgrade from 2MB to 1MB?!? for £20
...
As you can see the whole thing leaves me confused. I would like to think its either my livebox, the wiring in my house or the local exchange, but I have no idea.
Sounds like another change to the possible line speed, several other threads around about this. Drop your phone number into the site below. Note the ADSL speed, not the ADSL Max speed. If it shows 1 meg at most then thats where the Orange systems are getting it from. It simply sees the line as not being on what the checker says is maximum and offers an "upgrade" to that speed.
Right now it's probably best to wait for the engineer, except for trying the BT test socket (if you have the right master socket) then there's not much else to do.
I've taken the liberty of splitting up your post so I can answer each part in turn, hope ya don't mind.
Kirby2000 wrote:
Hi. I am at my wits end (as as most of you probably) with my Orange 2MB Livebox connection.
Welcome to WanadOrange, the giant sprawling mess of a company that puts profit before good customer service.
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When I first got my livebox back in October last year it worked fine, but occasionally the connection would suddenly drop out. My wireless link was still connected because I could view my ADSL Status, which would read "Synchronisation in Progess" over and over again until it said "Link Down".
I was suffering from occasional dropouts when connecting wirelessly to the livebox through the ridiculous USB doodad they supplied. Personally, I put it down to this 'dongle' overheating. After an hour or so of continuous use it would become a tad warm to the touch. Switching to an ethernet cable through the livebox fixed the problem, and rendered the 'wireless' functionality of the livebox somewhat redundant.
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This would happen about once or twice a day and could be fixed by turning the power on and off on the livebox or rebooting it remotely (http://192.168.1.1/rebootinfo.cgi). I wasn't too happy with it, but it seemed a minor inconvenience at the time.
Generally a sign that you've got a dodgy bit of kit. Or a less than stable line.
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This was soon not to be the case. In the last few months the connection has been dropping out constantly every 10 or 20 minutes, sometimes every 3 minutes with the same problem. Sometimes the ADSL Status gets as far as "PPP in Progress" but then goes back to "Synchronisation in Progess".
Roughly translated, the livebox is telling you 'I can't connect to the internet, or to your account on the remote server.'.
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I called Orange and was told I needed to check my connections and filter and try and replace the filter with a new one. Living with room-mates I didn't have my old Wanadoo box to hand so I had to go out to the local PC World and buy a filter.
Complete nonsense. Although I would certainly suggest replacing the livebox, as they're a bloody awful piece of kit. I switched back to an alcatel speedtouch 330. Much better, and frees up a spare socket for my mobile phone charger .
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I plugged this in instead of my old one and of course there was no difference in the problem. I had made sure I had unplugged any phones or extra equipment in the house that might be causing the problem and my livebox was plugged in correctly at the main BT phone point.
As I've already suggested, the problem isn't at your end, its either the adsl signal or the wanadoo/orange server.
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I then rang up again and was told they would do a line check and to stay off the phone and internet for 2 hours.
2 hours? Stalling tactic, anyone?
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I then rang back again and was told that the line check had come back with "possible problems" and that I should check all my connections which I did AGAIN and told them. They said they would do a second line test.
If the line check suggests 'possible problems', why would rechecking your connections help in any way, shape or form?
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I rang back the next day and was told the same thing, to check connections again. I told them nothing had changed, they seemed unaware that they'd spoke to me the day before. They told me they were now going to get BT to do a line test and to stay off the phone / internet for 24 hours.
No mentions of escalation or special provisions at this point?
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24 hours later I rang again, to be told that BT might have found a problem and the answer would be to check my connections again and then do another line test. This pi**ed me off quite a bit and I ended up telling them that I'd been doing this over and over again for the last 4 days, the connections were DEFINITELY all correct and I didn't need another line check if they were just going to say the same thing tomorrow.
Now you're catching on .
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The girl on the end went a bit quiet and I felt kinda bad, but she told me she was going to ring BT directly and put me on hold for 20 mins (Orange only have 4 songs on their waiting track by the way, so you might go insane if you are put on hold much).
Its nice that you felt bad for her, but try to remember that you're a customer here, and not at fault. Sounds like she was one of the 'good' ones though, as she actually attempted to deal with your problem whilst you were on the phone.
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She then told me that BT were going to do another line test, but wouldn't send an engineer out to me because I was able to get a connection "occasionally" rather than never (even though it was for about 2 mins at a time). After a bit of arguing she put me on hold again and rang BT and was told they would ring me up reguarding an engineer and that I shouldn't ring them again till he'd been.
Well, its a result of sorts, I guess.
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After 8 or so hours I got a call from BT telling me there would be an engineer coming to be in 2 weeks (28th) so I am still waiting.
Unless the engineer actually needs to enter the premises, you probably won't hear from them to say whether or not they've been.
On top of this Orange told me that I was only on a 1 Meg line despite the fact I was supposed to be on 2MB. I told them that their phone line checker told me my maximum speed was 1MB, maybe being on 2MB was the problem, they then said I was never on 2MB. They told me I could that the download rate of 220KB/S I could acheive (when it was working) is normal for a good 1MB line.
Finally we're beginning to get some indication of a possible problem. 220Kbps is NOT a normal download rate for a 1Mb line. By definition, a 1Mb (megaBIT) line is capable of a maximum of 115 KB (kiloBYTES) per second. This brings us to:
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After speaking to BT, they told me I was on 2MB, the BT line test says I can have 3.5MB. The Orange speed upgrade page says I can upgrade from 2MB to 1MB?!? for £20
and:
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I live 2.4 miles from my exchange, as far as I know, this shouldn't cause a problem.
Actually, 2.4 miles is quite far from the exchange. This is generally measured in a straight line from the exchange, too. So the actual length of cable could be as much as double that distance (although that's unlikely).
Going on what you've said so far, it sounds like you are, in fact, on a 2Mbps enabled line. The problem with this is that your distance from the exchange is likely to render that speed to be unattainable. I live a mere 1.5km from my exchange, and the fastest I can get (apart from adsl Max) is 1Mb. Its possible that you're just on the borderline of 2Mb and are experiencing an unstable connection because of too much background line noise, or signal attenuation.
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As you can see the whole thing leaves me confused. I would like to think its either my livebox, the wiring in my house or the local exchange, but I have no idea. I am computer literate (doing a degree in Computer and Information Systems) but am finding it very frustrating because I can't leave Orange for another 4 months due to my contract.
Phone them up, tell them that the 220Kbps download speed suggests that you're on a 2Mb connection, which seems to be impossible to sustain on your phone line. Get them to ENSURE that you're put immediately onto 1Mb, then ditch the sorry excuse for an ISP the minute that your 4 months is up. If they continue to insist that your connection speed is 1Mb, and your download speed (when you can actually connect) is 220Kbps, take a screenshot of a download running at that speed and include it with an email to the ISPA.
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Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions on what the problem might be or what I can do to get it fixed?
Yep, see the last few paragraphs. Additionally, go back into those livebox configuration pages and let us know what the attenuation and noise readings are.
Another thing to try is to borrow a regular adsl modem and see if you can connect using that. Do NOT under any circumstances buy a modem, as you can always request that Orange provide you with one instead of the Livebox.
Mind you, I waited 3 months for a modem that never arrived, and I've switched to Pipex now, so I doubt it ever will .
Thanks for your help so far. I know I came across as a little nieve and willing to take crap from Orange, but having been in charge of a customer service department for an A/V company I was trying to cut them some slack. I do realise that they have no idea what they are talking about and I had considered a lot of the ideas you mentioned, however:
I live with 2 roommates, one of who is also my landlord and don't have the option of a wired connection (I'm not allowed to run wires round the house). I also cannot use a modem instead of a router because we share the connection between us. My room-mate uses a 3rd party wireless adaptor to connect to the router, do you think this would steady my connection (once I drop it down to 1MB)?
As for the actual problem, I am hoping it is the 1MB problem, but again there is also the option of a bad line or dodgy hardware, so basically it could be anything (except my PC setup, the connection drops even with the pc turned off).
Should I still let the engineer turn up or would it be a waste of his time. They did mention that they would "see if I needed to change my line to 1MB"
I know exactly what you mean, I've been cutting them slack for 6 months now. My migration hasn't happened yet, but I'm already happy as a pig in proverbial s**t that I'm moving to a new ISP.
Definitely looks like a 1Mb/2Mb problem from where I stand. Assuming that you can get this problem fixed, you can probably manage to get a stable connection (wirelessly or otherwise).
Your noise margin is quite low. Basically, this is the difference between the signal strength and the amount of noise on the line. Obviously then, the higher this figure is then the better it is for your connection. The level of Attenuation works the other way around. In layman's terms, this is the amount of 'signal degradation' suffered due to the length of wiring between the source and the output of said signal.
webopedia.com describes attenuation as -
'Reduction of signal strength during transmission. Attenuation is the opposite of amplification, and is normal when a signal is sent from one point to another. If the signal attenuates too much, it becomes unintelligible, which is why most networks require repeaters at regular intervals. Attenuation is measured in decibels.'
- which is a pretty good description. Basically, for every 10dB of Attenuation, your signal becomes about 10x less powerful.
You might also want to check out http://usertools.plus.net/tuto...ials/id/12 which suggests that a 2Mb line requires an Attenuation of no more than 45dB (although some companies will attempt up to 50 I believe). As yours is 59dB, its safe to assume that your best bet is to go with 1Mb.
Based on the figures you've posted, most companies wouldn't have been able to offer you 1Mb, let alone 2Mb until quite recently. If you are on a 2Mb line at present (which seems pretty apparent from the Downstream/Upstream readout of 2272/288) switching to 1Mb will almost certainly help relieve your problem.
Incidentally, I believe that the 3584 kbps listed as your Attainable download rate is the maximum rate you'd get if you were put onto an adsl Max connection. Don't quote me on this though, because I don't work for either BT or Orange.
So yes, go and ask Orange to put you on 1Mb, and state quite clearly that the line should never have been put onto 2Mb in the first place.
Would the noise be due to the distance from the exchange or is it possible its the line in my house? Obviously if I can get BT to fix my phoneline to reduce noise and give me a more stable connection then I would prefer that seeing as they are already coming in 6 days, however if this is not the case I will ring Orange first thing tomorrow and demand they change the line speed to 1MB.
Also worth noting, when I quoted my distance from the exchange, I used Autoroute, so I was going via roads instead of straight distance
Would the noise be due to the distance from the exchange or is it possible its the line in my house? Obviously if I can get BT to fix my phoneline to reduce noise and give me a more stable connection then I would prefer that seeing as they are already coming in 6 days, however if this is not the case I will ring Orange first thing tomorrow and demand they change the line speed to 1MB.
Also worth noting, when I quoted my distance from the exchange, I used Autoroute, so I was going via roads instead of straight distance
The noise is mainly a measure of distortion on the line itself. Asking BT to turn up the gain on your line slightly might help improve matters, but too much can actually make things worse. I wouldn't worry too much about the distance, and more about that Attenuation figure. A noise margin of 12 is workable, if not ideal. So 11.5 is more or less decent enough to support an adsl connection, although again would be a factor if you're trying to stream 2Mbps.
I really don't see them being able to offer you a 2Mb connection with an attenuation of almost 60dB. I would definitely start there, ask for the 1Mb, and see how things work out.
It's certainly possible there's a cause to all this the engineer can fix. If not then usually BT will instigate the downgrade to 1 meg if speed appears to be the cause.
If you called and demanded the downgrade to 1 meg then worst case senario is you're stuck on a 1 meg line with exactly the same problems, best to let the engineer do the checks.
It's certainly possible there's a cause to all this the engineer can fix. If not then usually BT will instigate the downgrade to 1 meg if speed appears to be the cause.
If you called and demanded the downgrade to 1 meg then worst case senario is you're stuck on a 1 meg line with exactly the same problems, best to let the engineer do the checks.
Hell, yeah. Make sure they check out the line before they do anything. But its almost a certainty that a downgrade to 1Mb is the best scenario you can hope for.
well i have read through this thread,and all i can do now is tell you what i have and still am going through.
I have the exact same problem,my connection drops out frequently.
Now.....after a week of calling Orange,and being pushed from department to department,i spoke to technical support,they said it could be the livebox,maybe it cut out during the firmware update.
Now baring in mind that my problem started on the 19th of june this year and i have been with wanadoo nearly 2 years,i thought maybe,so i di a manual update via the configure live box icon.
This worked for me.....woohoo....and then 12 mins later,it drops out again.
So.....on the phone i go,calling Orange for the umpteenth time(and during the day 7.5p a minute,to talk to someone who knows nothing,is rediculous), anyway,back to technical support again,tried a livebox recovery cd......kepr failing with a "programmation error"..............!!
By this point,i am getting cheesed off........this had gone on for 10 days now,so i demanded new equipment cable etc, and i even rewired my phone lines,and i am running off the main BT socket.
SO.......i get my new modem and a bag to send old equipment back..........and the special(so called prepaid bag,did not have all the stickers on in order to send it back,the post office refused,gotta call them about that too).
Installed new modem and software yada yada yada..........and it worked fine for 6 hours.......then dropped out.
So by this point my blood is starting to get to boiling point.So i called again,demanding a BT engineer ASAP,so i got a call 10 mins later saying,one would be visiting me on the 6th july,and he turned up,replaced sockets,and checked absolutly everything with his posh adsl kit and laptop.
2hours later,it was fixed,and its been fine all weekend,and just today,i have the same problems yet again........so....its not the modem...its not the phone line.......it has to be Orange.
I am now at my wits end with them,i am gonna call tomorrow and demand someone senior to speak too.
oh and if they monitor this site!...then why is it everyone ya speak to, has no clue about a problem with the 2mb 1mb 4mb 8mb,yes i have friends on all these connections,and they all have the same problems.
It's getting out of hand,and they will lose a lot of customers because of this changeover.
ok.....thats about it for me........sorry for the long post.
This is my first post lol
Now.....just a quick update.
I use zone alarm security suite....and last night i had an idea.What if.i turn the firewall off when the livebox updates? hmmmm......so i turned it off.and the box did its thing.......then reconnected after ten minutes...solid connection.
So i turned on windows xp firewall and kept zone alarm firewall off............and ever since( fingers crossed) my connection has been perfect.
Now to other issues........i called Orange today and demanded a full refund for downtime.....and the lady i spoke to was very helpful(makes a change),she has credited my account,also she has sent me another special delivery bag,so i can send my old wanadoo modem back.
So then i said about a refund for 40+ phone calls which i have made between the period of june 19th and july 14th, and she was very understanding about this,and admitted that it was some sort of problem with Orange and not my BT line etc........and has advised me to send a copy of my BT calls to Orange so they can calculate the amount of money of which they will happily refund me.
So it actually looks like i got somewhere with my problem.
I will advise ppl to try turning their firewalls off and switching to windows firewall,just to see if it works for other people,it has worked for me,so if i can help in any other way i will be happy to do so.
If it wasnt for this site i think i would have gone mad going round in circles,but everybody here has had some great advice for people,and i wish to applaud this.........so thanks guys.
Just contact me if ya need anything,as i know a lot about phone lines as my in-law is an engineer,and i am pretty good with computers and software too.
Hope all concerned get their problems sorted out ASAP,a month without internet is hell(as its part of my job)
The livebox updates don't go through the pc at all, infact it can and does update by itself without the pc attached at all so technically the firewall on the pc shouldn't effect it one iota.
yeah thats true mate.........but it just seem to work for me,i know its strange,but i have mine attatched via ethernet cable,which does send signals back and forth from livebox to pc,and it just seemed strange as soon as my firewall was off the update worked,cos previously it just kept rebooting and trying,and rebooting and trying again.
Was only a suggestion and not a solution.
Thought i would boast my opinions lol.
After all a software firewall prevents bad data going through your modem.
BT Engineer came round, said my line was only capable of 1MB and I should definitely not be on 2MB. He told me to contact Orange and downgrade the line.
I tried to contact Orange to downgrade the line, but was thrown back and forth between technical and customer service. No one understanded the concept of downgrading, only upgrading.
After getting a little angry again, I told them that I wasn't going to give them my name or number until I explained my problem and they guaranteed to put me through to the correct department.
After being put on hold for 20 mins (with the same 4 songs) I got put onto a guy who told me the only way he could downgrade my connection was to go onto my account on the Orange homepage and choose to "upgrade" from 2MB to 1MB and this would downgrade. Unfortunately he couldn't even log in to my account despite me spelling out my user ID and password.
This meant that I had to log onto the account myself and do it. The page said it would charge me £20 for this. I told the guy that I wasn't paying £20 when they put me on the wrong speed to start with and he told me it was wrong and I wouldn't be charged and if I did get charged then he would leave a note on my file saying to refund me (but I would still have to ring again about it).
I complete the process and the screen tells me my connection will be downgraded within 10 days.
10 days pass. My connection still disconnects during these 10 days, but suprisingly little (only about 10 times a day rather than 100).
I get an email telling me the connection is downgraded. However the connection is now worse, dropping out ever 30 seconds now.
So basically my connection is still broken really badly, its worse, except now my line has been downgraded to half speed.
The hot weather seems to have increased the problems a lot, though I know no techincal reason for this.
Any advice? Should I ask for a new livebox? I don't have a firewall or anything on and as far as I can tell my firmware is up to date (orange branded INVENTEL version : v5.06.2-uk)
my story is very similar to yours and is posting in the liveboxs issues section of this site
they wont send me a new livebox despite going through every other process they have told me to go through (connection,firewall, software, liune e.t.c usual stalling b*****ks)
best of luck u will need it i have given up and i am sitting here on ethernet as cant afford further phone calls
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